Just out of Curiosity (Buddhism, beliefs, doctrine, preach, church)

[Engyo]

Originally Posted by armageddon

i know all those basic things mentioned about Buddhism like Siddhartha Guatama started it and all that stuff but what does Buddhism teach (besides going to enlightenment)? what is its purpose? what are rituals or traditions or whatever that Buddhist people do and why do they do them (besides tradition)?

Well, now, that's a question. It depends on which Buddhist tradition you are asking about; just as Baptists do & teach different things than Catholics do.
I can't really speak accurately for others, so I will tell you about what I know.

For my tradition and school (Mahayana Buddhism, Nichiren School); we teach that enlightenment is possible in this lifetime, through practicing as the Lotus Sutra and Nichiren taught; this is the individual goal of each practitioner.

As to what I do, I meditate every day; sometimes twice or more. This meditation can take many different forms. The one I use most is a service consisting of reciting portions of chapters 2 and 16 of the Lotus Sutra, and reciting Nichiren's mantra Na Mu Myo Ren Ge Kyo. Another is one which combines periods of silent sitting meditation and mantra recitation. Why I do this, is that this meditation practice is what Nichiren taught as the most direct path to the attainment of perfect enlightenment in this lifetime.

I have been doing this in different forms for well over 20 years. Why? It works in my life. I am a very different person from the one who began this so long ago; far beyond what can be attributed to normal aging/maturing. I feel that Buddhism offers me the greatest possibility of making positive differences in both my life and in my environment, whether it be my family, workplace, city, state, nation, or planet.

[FacelessMage]

your question was what is buddhism and why are there so many types?
i am not a buddhist but i can answer you question. i a disciple of a high level cultivation system of the buddha school called falun gong for cultivating buddha-hood
the buddha school has nothing to do with buddhism and is not related to buddhism the only thing they have in common is their goal- cultivation of a buddha body.
please also keep in mind that i am not speaking for falun gong and only answering your question based on what i know at my level of awareness. and please aslo keep in mind that i am not trying to say anything bad about or belittle any buddhist.

buddhism is supposed to be a way of life and mystic practice which came from the teachings of an indian prince siddhartha who later changed his name to shakyamuni.

as to why there are so many types of buddhism- almost no one in this forum can answer this question because they either don't know what they're doing or don't know the answer because they're not serious about what they're doing.
first of all, buddhism as an established religion is not supposed to exist because buddha never wrote down any of his teachings. after buddha passed , people who recieved his teachings through traditional oral transmission. Some of them decided to write them down.
and while writing it down translated some of it to mean what they believed it meant at their level of awareness and based on the manifestations and phenomena of buddha law/tao they were able to know at their level of awareness because they were not on the same level buddha was at and therefore were unable to know the things buddha knew about buddha law/tao at his level nor the state of mind at his realm of awareness.
as a result some of what was written down was organised based on what was taught in them according to what levels they may be able to take one to .
for example there is theravada buddhism
this form of buddhism is not for becoming a buddha but for becoming a boddhisattva ( someone who chooses not to give up a body that can bring them suffering until all sentient beings attain some form of salvation )
the things written down also became mixed with things from other disciplines totally unrelated to buddhism .
that's why pure land exist and people call that buddhism.
pure land has nothing to do with buddhism, pure land is the discipline of buddha amitahbah. buddha amitahbah is not shakyamuni.
and then there are disciplines in buddhism that in the past could have saved someone but if used today won't work.
zen buddhism is the best example of this .
zen buddhism wasn't founded by buddha, it was founded by one of his disciples called bodhidarma. based on what i know, bodhi darma founded zen based on a high level sentence buddha said which was NO LAW IS ABSOLUTE.
dharma then came up with the theory of emptiness as a guide. he himself said that zen would only work for 6 generations and that after that wouldn't work.
does zen work today?
let's examine it.
if you go to a zen person and ask for teaching what do they do?
they'll take a broom and break it on your head. the reason being - they don't believe that the law/buddha law/tao can be taught and that if it's taught it won't be law anymore.
they do this because they believe only emptiness exist, but they also believe in enlightenment and buddha. now, i don't want to offend zen people, but tell me, how can one become enlightened if only emptiness exist? what would there be for one to use to become enlightend? is emptiness enlightenment? if buddha is emptiness what then is buddha? if only emptiness exist , why would a monk eat when hungry, sleep when tired or bleed when cut? these zen people don't even believe in their own existance.

anyways, i hope this helps in answering your question(s)

[Engyo]

FacelessMage -

I wish I could agree with most of what you say about Buddhism, but I can't.

Originally Posted by FacelessMage

anyways, i hope this helps in answering your question(s)

I am not sure that giving people inaccurate information is helpful; would I be helping folks to fgive them inaccurate information about Falun Gong? I can't understand why you wish to continue doing this. I am trying hard to remain respectful, but you don't seem to be listening to what I and others are saying regarding this. Can you explain?

[FacelessMage]

engyo
i'm not talking about BUDDHISM AS IT EXIST TODAY ( even though i do mention it )
i'm talking about buddhism as taught by shakyamuni( before he passed away ) when he had his disciples
if you don't believe anything i say please go look it up ( won't hurt to try- but please keep in mind that any single buddhist sect doesn't represent all of buddhism nor all the things taught by shakyamuni )
and by the way, I MEAN NO DISRESPECT TO ANYONE AND I AM NOT SPEAKING FOR FALUN GONG.
i am speaking from the viewpoint of what i know from formerly being a buddhist as well as studying buddhism.

i mean no disrespect to you with what i'm about to say now,
but why do you keep bugging me about what i'm saying?
if you believe it's wrong then why don't you post what you know is correct.( don't you think doing so would better help people who want to know?) i'd love to see you do so. and by CORRECT i mean everything correct from THE EXACT THINGS shakyamuni taught before he passed away to the HISTORICAL CONTEXT REGARDING THE DEVELOPMENT OF BUDDHISM.
one more thing- please note that i am not against buddhism nor any other religion and will never be at any time and that i have no intention of saying anything negative about any religion.

[FacelessMage]

well engyo, i hope this better explains what i was trying to say. please note that i am at no time speaking on behalf of FALUN GONG.

i decided to post part of the sacred book central to falun gong called zhuan falun

you can also do you own research on this if you still don't believe the stuff i posted

well here are 2 passages from that book.





I must emphasize yet another issue: Our cultivation practice requires teaching both a cultivation method and Fa. Some monks in temples, especially those of Zen Buddhism, may have different opinions. As soon as they learn about the teaching of Fa, they will be unwilling to hear it. Why is it? Zen Buddhism believes that Fa should not be taught, that Fa is not Fa if it is taught, and that there is no teachable Fa; one can only understand something via heart and soul. As a result, to this day Zen Buddhism has not been able to teach any Fa. Patriarch Boddhidarma of Zen Buddhism taught such things based upon a statement made by Sakyamuni8 who said: "No Dharma9 is definitive." He founded Zen Buddhism based on this statement by Sakyamuni. We consider this cultivation way to be "digging into a bull’s horn."10 Why is it said to dig into a bull’s horn? When Boddhidarma began to dig into it, he felt that it was quite spacious. When Patriarch II dug into it, he felt that it was not very spacious. It was still passable by the time of Patriarch III, but for Patriarch IV it was already quite narrow. There was almost no room to move further for Patriarch V. By the time of Huineng, Patriarch VI, it had reached a dead end and could move no further. If today you visit a Zen Buddhist to study Dharma, you should not ask any questions. If you ask a question, he or she will turn around and whack your head with a stick, which is called a "stick warning." It means that you should not inquire, and you should become enlightened on your own. You would say, "I came to study because I don’t know anything. What should I become enlightened about? Why do you hit me with a stick?!" This indicates that Zen Buddhism has reached the dead end of the bull’s horn, and there is no longer anything to teach. Even Boddhidarma stated that his teaching could be passed down to only six generations, after which it would no longer serve any use. Several hundred years have passed. Yet there are people today who still hold firmly to the doctrines of Zen Buddhism. What’s the actual meaning of Sakyamuni’s pronouncement, "No Dharma is definitive"? Sakyamuni’s level was Tathagata.11 Many monks later on were not enlightened at Sakyamuni’s level, to the thinking in his realm of thought, to the real meaning of his professed Dharma, or to the actual meaning of what he said. Therefore, people later on interpreted it this way or that way with very confusing interpretations. They thought that "No Dharma is definitive" meant that one should not teach it, and it would not be Dharma if taught. Actually, that is not what it means. When Sakyamuni became enlightened under a Bodhi tree, he did not reach the Tathagata level right away. He was also constantly improving himself during the forty-nine years of his Dharma teaching. Whenever he upgraded himself to a higher level, he looked back and realized that the Dharma he just taught was all wrong. When he made progress again, he discovered that the Dharma he just taught was wrong again. After he made further progress, he realized again that the Dharma he just taught was wrong. He constantly made such progress during his entire forty-nine years. Whenever he reached a higher level, he would discover that the Dharma he taught in the past was at a very low level in its understanding. He also discovered that the Dharma at each level is always the manifestation of the Dharma at that level, that there is Dharma at every level, and that none of them is the absolute truth of the universe. The Dharma at high levels is closer to the characteristic of the universe than that of lower levels. Therefore, he stated: "No Dharma is definitive."

In the end, Sakyamuni also proclaimed, "I haven’t taught any Dharma in my lifetime." Zen Buddhism again misunderstood this as meaning there was no Dharma to be taught. By his later years, Sakyamuni had already reached the Tathagata level. Why did he say that he had not taught any Dharma? What issue did he actually raise? He was stating, "Even at my level of Tathagata, I’ve seen neither the ultimate truth of the universe nor what the ultimate Dharma is." Thus, he asked people later on not to take his words as the absolute or the unchangeable truth. Otherwise, it would later limit people at or below the Tathagata level, and they would be unable to make breakthroughs toward high levels. Later, people could not understand the actual meaning of this sentence and thought that if taught, Dharma is not Dharma—they have understood it this way. In fact, Sakyamuni was saying that there are different Dharma at different levels, and that the Dharma at each level is not the absolute truth of the universe. Yet the Dharma at a given level assumes a guiding role at that level. Actually, he was telling such a principle.

In the past, many people, especially those from Zen Buddhism, held such prejudice and an extremely warped view. How do you practice and cultivate yourself without being taught and guided? There are many Buddhist stories in Buddhism. Some people may have read about a person who went to heaven. Upon arriving in heaven, he discovered that every word in the Diamond Sutra12 up there was different from that down here, and the meaning was entirely different. How could this Diamond Sutra be different from that in the ordinary human world? There are also people who claim: "The scripture in the Paradise of Ultimate Bliss is totally different from that down here, and it’s not at all the same thing. Not only are the words different, but the implications and the meaning are all different, as they’ve changed." As a matter of fact, this is because the same Fa has different transformations and forms of manifestation at different levels, and it can play different guiding roles for practitioners at different levels. It is known that in Buddhism there is a booklet called A Tour to the Paradise of Ultimate Bliss. It states that while a monk was sitting in meditation, his Primordial Spirit13 (yuanshen) went to the Paradise of Ultimate Bliss and saw its scenery. He spent one day there; when he returned to the human world, six years had passed. Did he see it? He did, but what he saw was not its true state. Why? It is because his level was not high enough, and what he was shown was only the manifestation of the Buddha Fa at his level. Because a paradise like that is a manifestation of the Fa’s composition, he could not see its actual situation. This is what it means when I talk about "No Dharma is definitive."

[FacelessMage]

here's the second passage ( IT'S TOO LONG SO I'LL HAVE TO POST IT IN 2 SECTIONS. )



The Dharma in Buddhism is only a tiny part of the Buddha Fa. There are still many kinds of great high-level Fa. Different levels also have different Fa. Sakyamuni said that there were eighty-four thousand cultivation ways. The Buddhist religion includes only a few cultivation ways. It only has Tiantai, Huayan, Zen Buddhism, Pure Land, Tantrism, etc. They do not even account for a small number! Therefore, Buddhism cannot represent the entire Buddha Fa, and it is only a tiny part of the Buddha Fa. Our FalunDafa is also one of the eighty-four thousand cultivation ways in the Buddha School, and it has nothing to do with the original Buddhism or Buddhism in the Dharma-ending Period; neither is it related to modern religions.

Buddhism was founded by Sakyamuni in ancient India twenty-five hundred years ago. When Sakyamuni reached the state of Unlocking Gong and became enlightened, he recalled what he had cultivated previously and made it public to save people. No matter how many thousands of volumes of scriptures have come out of that school, it actually consists of only three words. The characteristics of this school are: "precept, samadhi,1 wisdom." Precepts are for giving up all everyday people’s desires and forcing you to abandon the pursuit of self-interest, cutting off everything that is secular, and so on. In this way, one’s mind will be empty without thought of anything, and it can become tranquil. They complement each other. Upon being able to achieve tranquility, one can sit in meditation for actual cultivation and rely on trance to make progress in cultivation. This is the part of genuine cultivation practice in that school. It does not care for exercises, and neither does it change one’s benti.2 A person only cultivates that gong which determines the height of his level. Therefore, he only cultivates his xinxing. He does not cultivate his body, so he does not care for the transformation of gong. Meanwhile, through meditation he strengthens his ability for staying in trance, and sits in meditation to suffer and eliminate karma. "Wisdom" refers to that one becomes enlightened with great wisdom, and one can see the truth of the universe as well as the truth of different dimensions in the universe. All the divine powers emerge. The awakening to wisdom and enlightenment is also called the Unlocking of Gong.

When Sakyamuni founded this cultivation way, there were eight religions prevailing in India at the same time. There was a deeply-rooted religion called Brahmanism. Throughout his lifetime, Sakyamuni battled ideologically with other religions. Because what Sakyamuni taught was a righteous way, the Buddhist Dharma that he taught became more and more popular in the course of teaching while other religions increasingly weakened. Even the deeply-rooted Brahmanism was on the brink of extinction. After Sakyamuni’s nirvana,3 however, other religions, especially Brahmanism, regained popularity. Yet what situation emerged in Buddhism? Some monks reached the state of Unlocking Gong and became enlightened at different levels, but their levels of enlightenment were quite low. Sakyamuni reached the level of Tathagata, but a lot of monks did not reach this level.

The Buddha Fa has different manifestations at different levels. However, the higher the level, the closer it is to the truth. The lower the level, the further away from the truth. Those monks reached the state of Unlocking Gong and became enlightened at low levels. To interpret what Sakyamuni said, they used the manifestation of the universe that they saw at their levels and the situations and principles that they understood. That is, some monks interpreted Sakyamuni’s Dharma one way or another. Instead of using Sakyamuni’s original words, some monks also preached what they understood as Sakyamuni’s words; this made the Buddhist Dharma distorted beyond recognition, and it was no longer the Dharma taught by Sakyamuni. In the end, this caused the Buddhist Dharma to disappear in India. This is a serious lesson in history. So later on, India no longer had Buddhism. Prior to its disappearance, Buddhism went through many reforms. It eventually incorporated something from Brahmanism and became the present-day Indian religion called Hinduism. It no longer worships any Buddha. It worships something else, and does not believe in Sakyamuni. This is the situation.

During its development, Buddhism underwent several relatively major reforms. One took place shortly after Sakyamuni passed away. Some people founded Mahayana4 based on the high-level principles Sakyamuni taught. They believed that the Dharma Sakyamuni taught publicly was intended for everyday people’s self-salvation and the attainment of Arhatship. That Dharma did not offer salvation to all beings and was therefore called Hinayana.5 Monks in Southeast Asia continue to follow the original cultivation way of Sakyamuni’s time. In China, we call it the "Small Vehicle" Buddhism. Of course, they do not think so themselves. They believe that they have inherited Sakyamuni’s original tradition. It is indeed so, as they have basically inherited the cultivation way of Sakyamuni’s time.

After this reformed Mahayana was introduced to China, it took root in our country and became the present-day Buddhism taught in China. Actually, it has assumed a completely different look from Buddhism in Sakyamuni’s time. Everything has changed, from the attire to the entire enlightening state and the entire course of cultivation practice. In original Buddhism, only Sakyamuni was worshipped as its founder. Now, however, Buddhism has many Buddhas and great Bodhisattvas. In addition, faith is now dedicated to many Buddhas. Many Tathagatas are worshipped, and Buddhism has become a religion that worships many Buddhas, including Buddha Amitabha, Medicine Buddha, the Great Sun Tathagata, etc. There are many great Bodhisattvas as well. In this way, all of Buddhism has become totally different from what Sakyamuni founded in his time.

During this time period, another reform took place when Bodhisattva Nagarjuna taught a secret cultivation practice. It came from India and was introduced to China through Afghanistan and, later, Xinjiang.6 It happened in the Tang Dynasty,7 so it was called Tang Tantrism. Due to the influence of Confucianism, China’s moral values were different from those of other nationalities in general. This secret practice contained double cultivation of a man and a woman, and society could not accept it at that time. It was therefore wiped out when Buddhism was suppressed during Huichang’s time in the Tang Dynasty, and so Tang Tantrism disappeared from China. Now, there is an Eastern Tantrism in Japan that came from China at that time; however, it did not undergo guanding.8 According to Tantrism, if one studies Tantrism without guanding, one is considered to be doing the same as stealing the Dharma, and one cannot be recognized as having been taught in person. Another cultivation way, introduced to Tibet from India and Nepal, was called "Tibetan Tantrism," and it has been passed down to this day. Basically, this is the situation in Buddhism. I have just summarized very briefly the course of its development and evolution. Over the course of Buddhism’s entire development, some practices surfaced such as Zen Buddhism founded by Boddhidarma, Pure Land Buddhism, and Huayan Buddhism. They were all founded upon some understanding of what Sakyamuni said at that time. All of these belong to the reformed Buddhism. There are over ten such cultivation ways in Buddhism, and all have assumed the form of religion. Therefore, they all belong to Buddhism.

[FacelessMage]

As for the religions founded in this century, or not just this century but also the many new religions founded in different parts of the world in last several centuries, most of these are sham. The great enlightened people all have their own paradises to which they save human beings. These Tathagata Buddhas such as Sakyamuni, Buddha Amitabha, and the Great Sun Tathagata each have their own paradises for saving people. In our Milky Way, there are over one hundred such paradises. Our FalunDafa also has a FalunParadise. In terms of salvation, where can those sham practices take their followers? They cannot save people, as what they preach is not Fa. Of course, some people, when they first founded religions, did not intend to become the demons who undermine orthodox religions. They reached the state of Unlocking Gong and became enlightened at different levels. They saw some principles, but they were far from the enlightened beings who can save people. They were at very low levels, and they discovered some principles. They realized that some things among everyday people were wrong, and they would also tell people how to do good deeds. At the beginning, they were not against other religions. But people would eventually believe in them, thinking what they said was sensible; in turn, people trusted them more and more. As a result, people would be devoted to them instead of to religions. Upon developing an attachment to fame and self-interest, they would ask the public to honor them with some titles. After that, they would found new religions. I am telling you that all of these are evil religions. Even if they do not harm people, they are still evil practices because they have interfered with people’s faith in orthodox religions. Orthodox religions can save people, but they cannot. As time passes, they do bad deeds on the sly. Recently, many of these things have also been introduced to China. The so-called Guanyin sect9 is one of them. Therefore, be on your guard. It is said that there are over two thousand practices in a certain East Asian country. All kinds of beliefs exist in Southeast Asian countries and in other Western countries. One country openly has a devil-worshipping practice. All of these things are demons that have come forth in the Dharma-ending Period. The Dharma-ending Period does not only pertain to Buddhism, but also the corruption of many dimensions beneath a very high-level dimension. "Dharma-ending" does not only refer to Buddhism; it also means that in human society there is no sense of spiritual obligation that maintains morality.

[Engyo]

FacelessMage -

I would like to thank you for helping me with a lesson. After meditating, it was obvious that I was carrying an attachment I needed to release, and you helped me see that, and do so. I shall no longer trouble you about accuracy or completeness in your postings regarding Buddhism. Again, thank you!

[FacelessMage]

well engyo, i kinda realized the same thing to - what we were discussing was turning out to become an arguement and that would definitely have been an attachment.
i wish i could share with you what i know about buddha law ( not it's istory or practices )
more like what i awok to- but it's extremely hard to explain and extremely complicated to understand of learnt- it involves things being complex in certain situations yet wrong in other situations and whole nex convoluted underlying causes exiist. ( the things i awoke to sound as complex as if not beyond what's in the daoist book the hua hu ching by lao tzu- but since you're a buddhist,i suggest you not read that book. )
anyways- it wasn't my intention to cause you to develop any attachment(s) - so if i did please, not that i apologize and that whatever happened it's all on me.
one more things, are you guys the only buddhist that post on here?