Reincarnation

[OneoftheLost]

Ok, this has been asked many times before, and will probably be asked many times after. Unfortunately the previous threads havn't really helped me. I'm currently reading 'What the Buddha Taught' by Walpola Rahula, as well as the Buddhist Bible by Dwight Goddard, and lastly several of Geshe Kelsang Gyatso's works.

Now, Ive been trying to wrap my head around the concept of Buddhist reincarnation, but as with most religions there seems to be endless interpretations of the concept. For example:

1. Geshe Kelsang Gyatso book's are of the New Kadampa tradition, which as I understand it belongs to the Mayahana (sp?) teachings and overview. In his books he talks of quite literal reincarnation involving a rebirth. Not of a 'soul' mind you, but the classic idea of reincarnation. He even goes so far as to say he found the person who his mother had reincarnated as through various... method. (I honestly can't remember what methods.)

2. Ive asked and some people regard it as more of a actions and deeds idea. Or more accurately, after we die, its not that we are reborn literally, its that our energies, ideas, actions, and such effect the people and world around us so that we don't 'live-on' so much as be reborn down the line as a person with similair beliefs and such due to the the cause and effect idea.

If that makes any sense. It barely does to me. I will say it doesn't sound like what little I understand of what the Buddha taught.

3.

The Lesson

We can learn a valuable lesson from the teaching of reincarnation.

In what realm do you now live? If you are hungry for power, love, and self-recognition, you live in the Preta world, or hungry ghosts. If you are motivated only by thirsts of the human organism, you are existing in the world of the beast.

Consider well then your motives and intentions. Remember that man is characteristically placed at the midpoint of the ten stages; he can either lower himself abruptly or gradually into hell or through discipline, cultivation and the awakening of faith rise to the Enlightened state of the Buddha

Taken from A Basic Buddhism Guide: On Reincarnation as this exactly talks about what Ive heard some folks tell me.

Now, before we continue, lets keep this thread civil. I'm well aware of some of the drama involving various buddhists sects, as well as the rather vague subject, so lets not continue with such arguements, or start new ones.

In a nutshell my question is this, and only this. What is YOUR interpretation of the Buddhist idea of reincarnation. I would like to hear everyone's thoughts so that I could better form my own.

[LuisDantas]

I don't believe in reincarnation of any kind, nor do I think there is room for the idea in Buddhism. People have been taking some liberties with the concept of rebirth, which was IMO never meant to be taken anywhere near that literally.

Myself, I believe that what we do influences the world around us and eventually comes back to shape our environment in ways both direct and quite indirect and subtle. It is far less a matter of "belief in rebirth" as of taking responsibility for our role in the web of causes and consequences.

[DreadFish]

Basically, the idea I follow is: the mind stream of a person has various impressions and imprints of varying degrees depending on the actions that one performs through body, speech, and mind. These influence the way the mind perceives things, and when the body dies, certain strong imprints influence where the mind is reborn. It goes along the idea of like attracts like, so given certain imprints, a mind is reborn into a realm reflecting the state of the mind.

When reborn, the person is not the same person as they were in a previous life, but may have certain features that are a result of strong imprints on the mind from previous births.


Also, LuisDantas, I am interested as to why you think there is no room for it in Buddhism. It sounds interesting.

[koan]

Luis, If you can't believe in Rebirth, then you can't believe in Karma.

[LuisDantas]

I believe in Rebirth and in Karma, but I see no room (or sense) for the preservation of a "self" in the mechanics of it.

[DreadFish]

Originally Posted by LuisDantas

I believe in Rebirth and in Karma, but I see no room (or sense) for the preservation of a "self" in the mechanics of it.

Oh ok, that makes more sense. At first I was like "no room for it in Buddhism? Didnt the Buddha talk about rebirth??"

[LuisDantas]

In all sincerity, I doubt he would use the word in these times. There are better terms available now.

[DreadFish]

Originally Posted by LuisDantas

In all sincerity, I doubt he would use the word in these times. There are better terms available now.

What terms would you think are better?

[LuisDantas]

Something more abstract and less easily confused with a "soul". Something along the lines of "nexus of causes and circunstances", perhaps.

[Friend of Bill W]

Originally Posted by koan

Luis, If you can't believe in Rebirth, then you can't believe in Karma.

Hi guys, can I ask what the specific link is between karma and rebirth is?

Why is it you cannot have karma without rebirth?