Reincarnation

[Engyo]

Originally Posted by Friend of Bill W

Hi guys, can I ask what the specific link is between karma and rebirth is?

Here is what I ususally link people to about the Five Aggregates.

Why is it you cannot have karma without rebirth?

I dunno if that is completely accurate. I think it would probably be more accurate to say that rebirth doesn't make sense without karma.

[DreadFish]

Originally Posted by Engyo

Here is what I ususally link people to about the Five Aggregates.

I dunno if that is completely accurate. I think it would probably be more accurate to say that rebirth doesn't make sense without karma.

I agree, if not for karma, there is no reason to be reborn because we would simply pass into the state of nirvana if we had no obscurations.

[Friend of Bill W]

I'm doing a Buddhist foundation course (Gelug Buddhism); I'm 10 months into a two-year course, so know a little about rebirth, karma, and the aggregates; but karma and the aggregates, as far as I know, do not prove rebirth.

And karma is such a vast subject, it is said (so I've been taught) that only Buddha's understand it's full implications.

However, I'm starting to move towards a classical belief of rebirth, more from the understanding of what the mind actually is, through study and meditation; and also because I think a belief in rebirth would be better for my practise.

But really, the bottom line could be faith - not blind faith - but faith built upon the fact that the Buddha was right about 'this', so maybe he was right about 'that'.

Jus' my thoughts.

[DreadFish]

I think it's not that they prove rebirth, but that rebirth doesnt make as much sense without karma. Likewise the idea of the five aggregates makes the conventional reincarnation make less sense because if the "self" we perceive refers to the five aggregates, then there being no abiding self to be reincarnated makes rebirth make more sense.

[koan]

Friend of Bill W,
Let's say that a car is the five aggregates put together. Body, motor, wheels, panels, and electrics.
Which one of these aggregates, actually makes the car? The body by itself? The motor by itself? etc. Put them all together though and there is your car. Same with us. Which one of the aggregates actually makes us?
The idea of practice is not to believe what the Buddha say's, it's to use the tools (Dharma) and work it out yourself. And if you don't get it this life, maybe you will in the next.

[Friend of Bill W]

Originally Posted by koan

Friend of Bill W,
Let's say that a car is the five aggregates put together. Body, motor, wheels, panels, and electrics.
Which one of these aggregates, actually makes the car? The body by itself? The motor by itself? etc. Put them all together though and there is your car. Same with us. Which one of the aggregates actually makes us?
The idea of practice is not to believe what the Buddha say's, it's to use the tools (Dharma) and work it out yourself. And if you don't get it this life, maybe you will in the next.

Yes, I'm working through a commentary on the Heart Sutra; I understand Emptiness at a conceptual level.

But what I was interested in was this quote:

Originally Posted by koan

Luis, If you can't believe in Rebirth, then you can't believe in Karma.

Now, I can easily believe in karma at a superficial level - karma means action, cause and effect. And other stuff I've been taught about it. In fact you can test karma quite easily, I think (at this superficial level).

So karma is easy to believe in. But rebirth isn't so easy. So I wondered how if you can't believe in rebirth, then that also means you can't believe in karma.

I wanted to know why, and the question was answered.

Thanks all.

[Magog]

Originally Posted by OneoftheLost

In a nutshell my question is this, and only this. What is YOUR interpretation of the Buddhist idea of reincarnation. I would like to hear everyone's thoughts so that I could better form my own.[/b]

MY interpretation is that Buddhism is not concerned with reincarnation, since it means the reincarnation of an abiding entity. My current, faulty and incomplete interpretation of rebirth is that it is going on always, moment by moment. The Buddha taught rebirth and whilst it may seem that the difference is simply semantic it actually is not. The Buddhadharma does not teach reincarnation but it is a view which can be found in other Dharma traditions.

[St Giordano Bruno]

How about a Heaven in a Christian version as such, would that be less plausible than reincarnation?

[LuisDantas]

Originally Posted by St Giordano Bruno

How about a Heaven in a Christian version as such, would that be less plausible than reincarnation?

It depends. How literal do you want to be? The more literal that heaven, the more need for some sort of supernatural entity there will be.

[Magog]

Originally Posted by St Giordano Bruno

How about a Heaven in a Christian version as such, would that be less plausible than reincarnation?

Both seem implausible to me.