Comparison of scripture (translation, bible, God)

[dawny0826]

That's because somebody happened to interpret a bunch of sayings as having similar meaning. He then put those sayings next to each other, persuading future readers to read that same interpretation into it.

Okay...well then, can you point out to me which version I SHOULD be reading then?

I know it's just your opinion. Do you want me to stop discussing opinions with you?

I'm sorry. That's not how I meant that to come out. I meant it as...it's just my opinion...as in...my opinions might not account for much.

Uuummmm... Yeeaahhhh, thanks for your concern, though.

Okay.

Can you expound?

I'm not trying to be a pain in the rear here...I'm just trying to understand.

I'm following you. I understand what you're saying. You're saying that you choose to stick as close to the original to get as close to the intended meaning as possible.

Can you explain to me how the version you prefer differs from the versions that I'm reading.

We're not talking about "version to version." We're talking one version to the message translation.

Doesn't translation change from version to version?

For the record, I'm not trying to irritate you. You can tell me to do this... ...and I'm not going to be offended. I'm just trying to understand how the original texts or as close to the original translation as possible text differs from what I have in front of me. That's all.

[PetShopBoy88]

Originally Posted by dawny0826

Okay...well then, can you point out to me which version I SHOULD be reading then?

I don't know. Depends on what you're looking for in scripture.

Okay.

Can you expound?

I'm not trying to be a pain in the rear here...I'm just trying to understand.

I'm following you. I understand what you're saying. You're saying that you choose to stick as close to the original to get as close to the intended meaning as possible.

Can you explain to me how the version you prefer differs from the versions that I'm reading.

I don't know what version you're reading, and I don't "prefer" a version. But, I can explain to you how the original and the most recent translation (the message translation) would differ.

Let's say, for the sake of argument, the first thing ever written down was "This rooster is a very fine looking bird".

This phrase is read by somebody, who interprets the phrase "very fine looking". Knowing that birds are eaten, he interprets this to mean that the bird was plump and large. He then writes "This rooster is a very plump bird".

The next people who write it know that nobody eats roosters. It's barbaric. They interpret rooster as chicken. "This chicken is a very plump bird".

Then, some person comes along, and translates it into english (because what I said before wasn't english ). "The chicken that sits before you is very good to eat". This is nowhere near "This rooster is a very fine looking bird."

This, essentially, is what happened to the Bible. A bunch of different people, at different periods of time, interpreted the writings within their own cultural frame of reference. Certain things, therefore, got changed. To figure out the "real" interpretation of the verses, one must go as far back as possible. "The chicken that sits before you is very good to eat" is not quite as close as This chicken is a very plump bird, which is not as close as "This rooster is a very plump bird".

A translation is, in essence, an interpretation. Therefore, any translation you get is going to be a little messed up in that regard, imposing it's own interpretation on the text. But, a translation that sticks as close to the original words and phraseology as the original does less of this imposing than a translation (like the message translation) that blatantly interprets like this. Everybody is going to get different interpretations for the same verse, which is a good thing. It allows people to think for themselves.

[dawny0826]

Originally Posted by PetShopBoy88

I don't know. Depends on what you're looking for in scripture.


I don't know what version you're reading, and I don't "prefer" a version. But, I can explain to you how the original and the most recent translation (the message translation) would differ.

Let's say, for the sake of argument, the first thing ever written down was "This rooster is a very fine looking bird".

This phrase is read by somebody, who interprets the phrase "very fine looking". Knowing that birds are eaten, he interprets this to mean that the bird was plump and large. He then writes "This rooster is a very plump bird".

The next people who write it know that nobody eats roosters. It's barbaric. They interpret rooster as chicken. "This chicken is a very plump bird".

Then, some person comes along, and translates it into english (because what I said before wasn't english ). "The chicken that sits before you is very good to eat". This is nowhere near "This rooster is a very fine looking bird."

This, essentially, is what happened to the Bible. A bunch of different people, at different periods of time, interpreted the writings within their own cultural frame of reference. Certain things, therefore, got changed. To figure out the "real" interpretation of the verses, one must go as far back as possible. "The chicken that sits before you is very good to eat" is not quite as close as This chicken is a very plump bird, which is not as close as "This rooster is a very plump bird".

A translation is, in essence, an interpretation. Therefore, any translation you get is going to be a little messed up in that regard, imposing it's own interpretation on the text. But, a translation that sticks as close to the original words and phraseology as the original does less of this imposing than a translation (like the message translation) that blatantly interprets like this. Everybody is going to get different interpretations for the same verse, which is a good thing. It allows people to think for themselves.

Okay, I'm following you.

What translation(s) do you read, out of curiosity?

And specific to the verse that Becky was comparing...if you were to compare a text that you would consider to be a more correct translation to let's say a more recent version/translation of the Bible...are the overall messages very different?

I'm asking specific to the text surrounding the verse mentioned in the OP.

I'm totally on the same page with you as far as personal interpretation and application is concerned.

[PetShopBoy88]

Originally Posted by dawny0826

What translation(s) do you read, out of curiosity?

NRSV and KJV are my primary translations, but I also have a watchtower.

And specific to the verse that Becky was comparing...if you were to compare a text that you would consider to be a more correct translation to let's say a more recent version/translation of the Bible...are the overall messages very different?

Yes.

The NRSV says that one who devotes their life to riches will wither. The Message says that the person will simply have a dead life. The difference from withering and just being dead is significant. Withing can only occure after something has reached a certain hight. Something can be dead, on the other hand, without being great. Withering implies a change. Dead does not. The righteous vs God-shaped is also a big difference. No where does that verse say anything about God. Righteous means just. So somebody who is just in their dealings with fellow man, or whatever. They could be atheists.

[Snowbear]

Dawny - FWIW, I actually agree with you. While the wording is different in these 2 versions of the same verse, they still say basically the same thing... which in my own paraphrase (aka interpretation ) is that if you put your trust in things of the world (like 'riches'), they will fail you and you will fail. If you are righteous (in other words - put your trust in God) you will flourish.

Originally Posted by beckysoup61

From the KJV Bible

Proverbs 11:28

28. He that trusteth in his riches shall fall: but the righteous shall flourish as a branch.



Taken from the MSG (whatever that is)

Proverbs 11:28
28. A life devoted to things is a dead life, a stump; a God-shaped life is a flourishing tree.