Was it Jesus' fault? (Earth, translation, creation, disciples, hell)

[djFiddles]

As mentioned, Satan sinned on his own - no outside influence is mentioned or hinted. His rebellion gained him eternal damnation (damnation = death = seperation from God). There also seems to be no salvation plan for Satan and other fallen angels. That is because they were in the literal physical presence of God; they were face to face with their Creator and decidedly looked to themselves for strength forsaking what God had given. That is the big difference between man and angels. We have not seen God, we have a faith and hope in our salvation. We will have the same end as the fallen angels if we neglect God in His presence.

In response to Jesus being the root of all evil (or at least responsible for it), you must understand that nobody, not even God, can "create" evil. Evil is simply the absence of Good, specifically God. When Satan originally sought his own strength to be God's equal (the original sin), he brought evil into "existence." A parable of this thought is heat and cold. We cannot measure cold, only heat. Cold is merely the absence of heat. After Satan did this in Heaven, he wanted to bring mankind, God's prize jewel of creation, down. Only after Adam and Eve had the knowledge of good and evil were they able to sin on a regular basis. Satan lied to them and fooled them into thinking it was good (again, that they would be like God - the "original sin"). So to find who is "responsible" for sin and evil in the world, we need only look to those who do not excercise God's will, power, presence etc all the time. I think we all know who that is.

Why does God create people when He knows we will rebel and some will choose the path of death and damnation? The same reason any of us have kids. I am not a father yet, but I plan to marry and then have a few kids. I am not without knowledge that my kids will rebel, scream at me, poop their pants, not eat their peas, skip their chores, play too many video games, maybe even say they hate me. My kids may even end up doing drugs or make me a grandparent before they are out of high school. Most people understand that children rebel without exception - in fact for anyone who does not see this is quite ignorant and even probably stupid. Kids rebel and that is what happens when we do not FORCE them to do what we want them to do (a love based free will). But even looking towards all of that, I still want to have kids. Many people in the world still long to have kids even with this nightmarish forboding. God knows that we will spit in His face, sin against Him and do evil. He also knows that we might turn to Him for repentance, guidance and salvation. I "know" the future of my children and I look forward to taking care of them someday; God knows the future of His kids and He looks forward to taking care of them also.

Was Jesus' sacrifice meaningless? Was it easy for Him to turn the other cheek, die and humiliating painful death, crawl through Hell without His Father, even become a man? Think about it, what was the first sacrifice of Christ? On the cross?? I don't think so, actually. It was when God became a man. God becoming a man was simply horrific for the Heavenly society. It's called the humiliation of Christ. Yes, Jesus has been around since the Holy Spirit and the Father (forever, no beginning - they are One) but the Son found it appropriate and necessary to become a man and mingle with those who have been cursing God for millenia. Imagine the crying that took place in Heaven when the King of the angels was leaving His throne to become that which was the problem with the universe, instead of just annhilating them. And Jesus did not stop at simply becoming a man to tell people about God; He became friends with them, He lived with them, He taught them, and to top it all off, He accepted the sin, guilt, damnation of us all. Not only did He endure the physical floggings, mockery, beatings, thorn crown and ultimately the cross; He endured the spiritual torment of all of us. All our sins were cast upon Him. Little is said about what happened after His death and before His resurrection, but I imagine quite a fight going on in Hell - Jesus kicking the trash out of Satan, stealing the gate keys to setting the prisoners free.

Jesus is no bad guy, conspirator or otherwise. Jesus is the Hero all our hearts are trying to find, even if we don't quite realize it.

[t3gah]

You gotta admit that Jesus dying and ascending back to heaven wasn't the first time someone from that realm dematerialized their human body, discarded it or whatever and then went back to heaven in their spirit bodies. In Noah's day the true sons of God did this when they came down and fornicated with earth women, the flood came and those bad angels (sons) tossed away their bodies and rose back to heaven.

What Jesus did was no skin off of his back really. He knew he was going to die. He knew his pain would only be temporary. He knew he would no longer have the body that had holes in it because it was going to be discarded. That means what he did, suffering in human terms and dying in human terms only means something to us humans since Jesus is an immortal spirit who was in the beginning with God, all things were created through Jesus (the Word), which got fouled up when the wheels fell off through angels disobeying and Eve and Adam disobeying along with the rest of the seemlingly faithful worshipers of the only true God.

And as a note, I am a believer. I'm not belittling anyone. The scriptures state many facts that point to one culprit in the worldly mess. Since all things were created through Jesus and for Jesus that means Jesus is the head person in charge.

So was it Jesus' fault? Yep.