Jesus a Messiah? (Jesus Christ, tradition, translation, genesis, Christians)

[jade0887]

I don't believe Jesus was the Messiah or that there will ever be one. If you disagree, then, let's talk, debate, or a little of both.
Jamie

[Scuba Pete]

Welcome Jade!

I do believe he was the Christos, the Messiah and am glad he came when he did!

[jade0887]

How do you explain Gen. 49:10, the verse that states that the sceptre of leadership will remain with the tribe of Judah until Shiloh or, as most Christians view it, Jesus comes? Now, here's my problem with that: Jesus is of the tribe of Judah and can't take the sceptre away from his own tribe. Any comments?

[Gilbert1908]

How do you explain Gen. 49:10, the verse that states that the sceptre of leadership will remain with the tribe of Judah until Shiloh or, as most Christians view it, Jesus comes? Now, here's my problem with that: Jesus is of the tribe of Judah and can't take the sceptre away from his own tribe. Any comment

The main comment is simply that the best arguments for Jesus as the messiah are not found in the Old Testament, but in the New Testament.

[jade0887]

Gilbert,
How does that answer my Gen. 49:10 problem with Jesus' messiahship? I have additional comments on the other aspects associated with Jesus' messiahship that you alluded to but, first things first.
Jamie

[Scott1]

Hiya jade, welcome to RF!

You have confused me.... this passage clearly points to Jesus as Messiah..... I don't see the point you are trying to make.

Genesis 49


10 The scepter will not depart from Judah,

nor the ruler's staff from between his feet,

until he comes to whom it belongs and the obedience of the nations is his. (NIV)


While tribute is brought to him: this translation is based on a slight change in the Hebrew text which, as it stands would seem to mean, "until he comes to Shiloh." A somewhat different reading of the Hebrew text would be, "until he comes to whom it belongs." This last has been traditionally understood in a Messianic sense. In any case, the passage foretells the supremacy of the tribe of Judah, which found its fullfillment in the Davidic dynasty and unlimately in the Messianic Son of David, Jesus Christ.

Peace,
Scott

[jade0887]

It does take awhile to see this. Let me try to simplify: A. Sceptre departs from the tribe of Judah when Shiloh comes; 2. Jesus is part of the tribe of Judah; 3. If Jesus is Shiloh and of the tribe of Judah, then, his coming would remove the sceptre from Judah and himself; 4. The only solution is to say that Shiloh is not of the tribe of Judah and thereby cannot be either Jesus or the long-awaited Davidic messiah.
Jamie

[Scott1]

Oh.... ok.... I get ya now.

Funny how the rest of the Christian world missed this for 2,000 years....

Thanks for your opinion.

Scott

[jade0887]

Why is it funny? One would think that common sense is common sense. Why the entire Christian world missed it is not my concern. Also, no matter how it's translated Gen. 49:10 still involved the departure of the sceptre from the tribe of Judah when Shiloh comes. Again, why is logic funny?
Jamie

[Scuba Pete]

I don't follow your reasoning. It doesn't say that the last person to get the sceptre HAS to be OUT of the tribe of Judah... just that it won't leave. I am not sure I would base my entire theology on a semantical twist.