Jesus and Michael - One and the same? (exodus, virgin)

[t3gah]

I've been researching this one for awhile now. There are many who state a certain passage that says that 'archangels voice' means that when Jesus returns in the second coming that he will in fact be Michael the archangel.

I'm having a tough time with this whole interpretation of 'voice' denoting 'being'. The scripture is: 1 Thessalonians 4:16

[World English Bible]
1 Thessalonians 4:16 For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with God’s trumpet. The dead in Christ will rise first,

[No*s]

I am speaking to you with the word of God.
I enter with the glory of a king.
I teach with the knowledge of Plato.

I could go on. None of these things rquire I be the thing in the prepositional clause. It's really kind of a bad exegesis (and I do know where you got it and your feelings there ).

[lilithu]

Originally Posted by t3gah

I've been researching this one for awhile now. There are many who state a certain passage that says that 'archangels voice' means that when Jesus returns in the second coming that he will in fact be Michael the archangel.

I wouldn't say many. There are some. This is most notably a belief of the 7th Day Adventists. Are there other sects/denominations that teach this?

I too would really be interested if someone could shed light on this interpretation.

[HelpMe]

Originally Posted by t3gah

I've been researching this one for awhile now. There are many who state a certain passage that says that 'archangels voice' means that when Jesus returns in the second coming that he will in fact be Michael the archangel.



I'm having a tough time with this whole interpretation of 'voice' denoting 'being'. The scripture is: 1 Thessalonians 4:16

[World English Bible]

1 Thessalonians 4:16 For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with God’s trumpet. The dead in Christ will rise first,

there is not one instance of the greek nt being written as such and referring to the object not believing to the subject.there's a ton more scriptures that prove it more conclusively to me.

[t3gah]

Originally Posted by HelpMe

there is not one instance of the greek nt being written as such and referring to the object not believing to the subject.there's a ton more scriptures that prove it more conclusively to me.

Do you mean you know of scriptures that prove that Jesus is Jesus and Michael is Michael but no scriptures prove thae Michael is Jesus?

[Scuba Pete]

It is amazing to me how people misuse the scriptures t3gah! I agree with your having a "tough time" accepting this. Don't!

The point of Scripture is to get us "ready" for service. When properly used, our lives change and we learn how to love even as Jesus loved.

Many use the scriptures to sow discord and to destroy harmony. They think that THEY have the true insight and are puffed up by this new found "knowledge". Instead of teaching things that bring about a change of heart, they concentrate on the superfluous (like exposing the trinity). Instead of looking to the scriptures for ways to change their OWN heart they are looking for ways to convolute it to prove how "insightful" they are. It's always best to be a true fundamentalist... get BACK to the fundamentals of Christianity... Love, Joy, Mercy, Peace etc. You know; the fruits of the Spirit as found in Galations 5.

[t3gah]

Originally Posted by lilithu

I wouldn't say many. There are some. This is most notably a belief of the 7th Day Adventists. Are there other sects/denominations that teach this?

I too would really be interested if someone could shed light on this interpretation.

The Watchtower Bible & Tract Society teaches that the angel in the Exodus where there was a pillar of cloud in behind the people walking or a pillar of fire in the front of the people walking is none other than Michael the Archangel. They also teach that Jesus and Michael are the same Angel. Jesus was a man. "Son of man" in his own words.

I've posted the cross-references on my "Errors in Bible translations..." thread. There's no evidence to suggest that Jesus and Michael are the same angels because of what I just stated. Jesus or Immanuel, was born through the virgin Mary and Michael the Archangel is a angel in heaven. The book of John states that Jesus was the "Word", not "Michael". And that the "Word" was in the beginning, not "Michael the Archangel". In Revelation, Michael the Archangel battles with the Dragon. Does the NWT have cross-references to Jesus from Revelation, Michael the Archangel? Nope, only to the name Michael throughout the NWT bible.

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=archangel

A scripture in Proverbs comes to mind. I'm gonna check that one out too. In fact I'm checking all the cross-references in the NWT.

[HelpMe]

Originally Posted by NetDoc

Many use the scriptures to sow discord and to destroy harmony. They think that THEY have the true insight and are puffed up by this new found "knowledge".

easily reminds me of many trinitarians.

Originally Posted by NetDoc

Instead of teaching things that bring about a change of heart, they concentrate on the superfluous (like *exposing the trinity*).

*or proving it in most people's case.*

Originally Posted by NetDoc

get BACK to the fundamentals of Christianity... Love, Joy, Mercy, Peace etc.

ataboy!!

Originally Posted by t3gah

Do you mean you know of scriptures that prove that Jesus is Jesus and Michael is Michael but no scriptures prove thae Michael is Jesus?

what?...

no, michael is much more easily yeshua according to scripture than yeshua is almighty.

[t3gah]

Originally Posted by HelpMe

easily reminds me of many trinitarians.
*or proving it in most people's case.*
ataboy!!
what?...

no, michael is much more easily yeshua according to scripture than yeshua is almighty.

neat play on words. does this mean youa re never going to reveal which scriptures you had in mind when you commented the first time?

[HelpMe]

wasn't playing on words....


sure i'll share when i get home if i remember in about 3 hours.