Book of Job (moral, punishment, tradition, choice, evolve)

[lunamoth]

This thread is kind of a placeholder to remind me that I want to ask you all about the Book of Job. My brain is too tired right now to develop much of an OP, except first to say that I think it's astounding (in a good way) that this book is in the Bible.

So, until I get a good night's sleep, what do you all think is the main point of the Book of Job?

[Poisonshady313]

Originally Posted by lunamoth

This thread is kind of a placeholder to remind me that I want to ask you all about the Book of Job. My brain is too tired right now to develop much of an OP, except first to say that I think it's astounding (in a good way) that this book is in the Bible.

So, until I get a good night's sleep, what do you all think is the main point of the Book of Job?

We don't always understand God's ways, so rather than give up when we get frustrated that bad things are happening to good people, make the best of a bad situation, soldier on, have faith that things will get better, and eventually they will.

[tomspug]

The Book of Job

Here's a thread I started awhile ago.

[Charity]

Patience...................

[Jeremy Mason]

Originally Posted by lunamoth

This thread is kind of a placeholder to remind me that I want to ask you all about the Book of Job. My brain is too tired right now to develop much of an OP, except first to say that I think it's astounding (in a good way) that this book is in the Bible.

So, until I get a good night's sleep, what do you all think is the main point of the Book of Job?

I look forward to talking with you about such a reveling book concerning a loyal servant of God, his contemporaries, and God.

[lunamoth]

Originally Posted by tomspug

The Book of Job

Here's a thread I started awhile ago.

Apologies for missing this tomspug. I will go read what you have to say there.

[lunamoth]

Just a couple of things I recently learned about the Book of Job. First, that the beginning and end prose sections are an ancient story that revolves around the question: would people still be loyal to God if there were no reward? (the first challenge, from Satan to God).

The central poem was probably written around the fifth century BCE. It is inconsistent with the prologue and epilogue in some places as it seeks to explore the problem of the suffering of the innocent. Job in understandable human fashion sets the problem up as a court case, where he challenges God on the traditional view of God's justice, "Does not calamity befall the unrighteous, and disaster the workers of iniquity?" He challenges God to come forward and answer to the charges, to justify the punishment he has inflicted upon Job.* (the second challenge, from Job to God).

Job's friends, representing traditional wisdom, are worse than unhelpful in their dialogues with Job. Conventional wisdom says Job must somehow be at fault for his problems. Just think how that would make us feel if we've lost everything and more!

When God does speak, he does not answer the challenge Job has brought. Instead, there is what I think of as a response that makes a double point, insufficient if we just stop at the first point: the power, glory and majesty of God, the 'God's way is not our way' response. The unconventional wisdom of the second part of the response is not based upon traditional moralism (the righteous are blessed), but upon a relationship in which both parties have freedom and choice in the relationship. Relationships are not bound by cause and effect, but can alter the course of cause and effect. The second part of the response is echoed in Job's statement "I had heard of you by the hearing of the ear, but now my eye sees you." Job recognizes a personal relationship is involved, not a quid pro quo deal. Even among people we don't think of our relationships as if they were business deals or something that we would test or justify in court. Our personal relationships are based upon love, as is our relationship with God.

I'll choose to think that this is what Nietzche meant by 'Love is beyond good and evil.'


* Based upon readings in the course: Education for Ministry, The University of the South

[lilithu]

I am continually surprised by how many people say the moral of Job is to be patient, etc. I have to wonder whether these people have even read the book. Because if you did, you'd see that Job loses his patience with God, gets angry and accusatory, and his three friends chastise him saying that God is always just and therefore he must be content with whatever God decrees. In fact, they suggest that he must deserve what he got. And in the end, after arguing with Job a bit, GOD SIDES WITH JOB, not his friends. God says that only Job has spoken truth about him. It wasn't Job's "patience" that turned things around. It was his finally confronting the injustice of what had happened to him and demanding an accounting from God himself.

So then, what is the main point of the book of Job?

[lunamoth]

Originally Posted by lilithu

So then, what is the main point of the book of Job?

Good question. I don't think there is one right answer to that, which is why I was hoping this would be an interesting thread. I have to say that I have been very inspired by the interpretation I just learned in my theology class, which I have been referring to in this thread and tom's.

Job has been granted a person-to-person encounter with his Creator. In the face of the calamities he has suffered, in spite of the absence of any logical meaning by which his sufferings can be justified, the vision of God suffices. It is a humbling experience; his vaunted pride is smashed--"therefore I despise myself, and repent in dust and ashes" (42:6). The whole issue has been set in a new context. The fundamental religous issue is not rigid obedience to every command with a corresponding reward of blessing from God. The result of that would a simple--and simplistic--moralism. The issue is the creature's trusting love of the Creator, and the Creator's intimate personal concern.

[lilithu]

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