Israelites Shall Not Kill? (punishment, Moses, Torah, exodus, Commandment)

[tomspug]

Interesting isn't it... that God would command his people not to kill. And yet, in forty years he commands them to engage in warfare. Do we have any Jewish scholars in the house?

[angellous_evangellous]

It's pretty simple, Tom.

In English as well as Greek and Hebrew, the meaning of "kill" is different from "murder."

God commands the Israelites not to murder, but orders them to kill in warfare.

[tomspug]

I suspected as much. So what is the justification for killing women and children without exception "in warfare"?

[angellous_evangellous]

Originally Posted by tomspug

I suspected as much. So what is the justification for killing women and children without exception "in warfare"?

The justification was "punishment from God." Don't forget, God is the one making the rules... but he did not ever command anyone "to murder."

[angellous_evangellous]

Here is an example:

NAS Exodus 20:13 "You shall not murder.

BGT Exodus 20:15 ouv foneu,seij

s `xc"߆r>Ti al{ðß WTT Exodus 20:13

xc;r': qal: pf. Œr, T'x.c;r', Axc'r.; impf. xc;r.Ti, xc'(r.Ti; inf. x;cor'; pt. x;ce¿AÀro: kill 1K 2119; pt. manslayer Nu 356 (no distinction betw. premeditated & involuntary killing).



NAS Joshua 9:24 So they answered Joshua and said, "Because it was certainly told your servants that the LORD your God had commanded His servant Moses to give you all the land, and to destroy all the inhabitants of the land before you; therefore we feared greatly for our lives because of you, and have done this thing.

BGT Joshua 9:24 kai. avpekri,qhsan tw/| VIhsoi/ le,gontej avnhgge,lh h`mi/n o[sa sune,taxen ku,rioj o` qeo,j sou Mwush/| tw/| paidi. auvtou/ dou/nai u`mi/n th.n gh/n tau,thn kai. evxoleqreu/sai h`ma/j kai. pa,ntaj tou.j katoikou/ntaj evpV auvth/j avpo. prosw,pou u`mw/n kai. evfobh,qhmen sfo,dra peri. tw/n yucw/n h`mw/n avpo. prosw,pou u`mw/n kai. evpoih,samen to. pra/gma tou/to

evxoleqreu/saiverb infinitive aorist active from evxoleqreu,w
evxoleqreu,w destroy utterly, root out Ac 3:23.*

dG:Ühu dGE“hu •yKi Wrªm.aYOw: [:vuøAhy>-ta, Wn“[]Y:w: WTT Joshua 9:24
tteÛl' ADêb.[; hv,ämo-ta, ‘^yh,’l{a/ hw"Ühy> hW"÷ci rv,’a] •tae ‘^yd<’b'[]l;
~k,_ynEP.mi #r<a'Þh' ybeîv.yO-lK'-ta, dymi²v.h;l.W #r<a'êh'-lK'-ta, ‘~k,l'
`hZ<)h; rb"ïD"h;-ta, hfeÞ[]N:w ~k,êynEP.mi ‘Wnyte’vop.n:l. daoÜm. ar"’yNIw:

dmv: nif.: pf. dm;v.nI, hd'm.v.nI, yTid.m;v.nI; impf. dmeV'yI, !WdmeV'(Ti; inf. dmeV'hi, sf. ^d.m,V'hi, %d'm.V'(hi: be exterminated, of persons Gn 3430, of name Is 4819; > be made useless: of a plain Je 488, high places Ho 108

[Dunemeister]

It seems to me that murder is "high-handed" killing. That is, it's killing without divine sanction, presumptive killing, a killing in which the killer believes he has the autonomous right to decide whether a person ought to die and acts on that presumed right.

For me, the interesting question is whether Christians EVER have that right, but that's a question for another thread.

[jewscout]

Originally Posted by tomspug

Interesting isn't it... that God would command his people not to kill. And yet, in forty years he commands them to engage in warfare. Do we have any Jewish scholars in the house?

as A_E pointed out the hebrew text in the "ten commandments" instructs us not to Murder, however, in certain cirmstances we may have to take another's life.

the reason given for getting rid of the inhabitants of the Land of Israel was that if it wasn't done then Am Yisrael would be corrupted by them and stray away from the Torah...which happened as is recounted in the Tanach. This is why the first dispersion occurred.

[tomspug]

This was kind of my own view as well, I just wanted to here it from someone with more knowledge about it.

[Popeyesays]

Originally Posted by tomspug

Interesting isn't it... that God would command his people not to kill. And yet, in forty years he commands them to engage in warfare. Do we have any Jewish scholars in the house?

The Septaguint strikes again.

The Hebrew commandment says: "Thou shalt not murder."

It's Greek and English that cause the quandry by making the two synonyms.

Regards,
Scott