Rewards in Heaven (Jesus Christ, ritual, salvation, grace, blood)

[Jeremy Mason]

This thread is a Biblical debate, please reference accordingly.
Question: Is Heaven a place of have(s) and have not(s)?

[madhatter85]

1st corinthians:

35 But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?

38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.

39 All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds.

40 There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.

41 There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.

42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:

43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:

44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

He (Paul) is speaking of the resurrection of all men, all mankind will be redeemed from physical Death, that is the free gift Given to all mankind.

But with the resurrection comes the varying degrees of Glory. becuase all men sow thier own fate, the grace of Jesus Christ is sufficient for those who obey his commandments. All are subject to the demands and law of Justice. and all men are accountable for thier actions and choices based on thier knowledge and the desires of thier heart.

Just as there are people who posess more knowledge than others, so how can all mankind be judged fairly if there was only 2 options? Heaven or Hell? nonsense.

Peopel who believe that if you die right now you will go to hell for eternity. have they forgotten about the resurrections of all mankind? go to hell just to come out again and be resurrected? i think not. there has to be a waiting place for the soulds of the dead to await the resurrection and final judgement.

[Jeremy Mason]

Originally Posted by madhatter85

1st corinthians:


He (Paul) is speaking of the resurrection of all men, all mankind will be redeemed from physical Death, that is the free gift Given to all mankind.

But with the resurrection comes the varying degrees of Glory. becuase all men sow thier own fate, the grace of Jesus Christ is sufficient for those who obey his commandments. All are subject to the demands and law of Justice. and all men are accountable for thier actions and choices based on thier knowledge and the desires of thier heart.

Just as there are people who posess more knowledge than others, so how can all mankind be judged fairly if there was only 2 options? Heaven or Hell? nonsense.

Peopel who believe that if you die right now you will go to hell for eternity. have they forgotten about the resurrections of all mankind? go to hell just to come out again and be resurrected? i think not. there has to be a waiting place for the soulds of the dead to await the resurrection and final judgement.

Thank you for sharing that and hope others will reply.

[Katzpur]

Originally Posted by Jeremy Mason

This thread is a Biblical debate, please reference accordingly.
Question: Is Heaven a place of have(s) and have not(s)?

Hi, Jeremy. I hope you don't mind if I repeat my post to you from the thread on baptism. It applies to this thread.

Jesus' Atonement makes it possible for each of us to be forgiven of our sins and be reconciled to God. But, that's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about receiving blessings commensurate with one's faithfulness. I don't believe that everyone who enters heaven will be a joint-heir with Christ, but then I probably believe that a whole lot more people will end up in Heaven than you do, so who knows -- the numbers may even out. Just as an example, let's say you believe that 5 out of every 10,000 people who have ever lived will find the straight and narrow path that leads to eternal life and that every one of those 5 will become joint-heirs with Christ. Let's say I believe that 9,999 of the same 10,000 will be permitted to enter heaven but that only 4 of those 9,999 lived a good enough life (i.e. were obedient to God's commandments and faithful to the teachings of Jesus Christ) to become joint-heirs with Christ. Your Church's doctrine will send 9,995 people to Hell, while mine will send only 1 to Hell and 9,999 to Heaven, with 4 of them becoming joint-heirs with Christ. I'll take my Church's brand of tension over yours any day!

Are you saying that the world's population is going to be split down the middle -- half going to Heaven and half going to Hell? Or are you just saying that everything is going to be very black and white with no shades of gray? I'd agree that the idea of getting into Heaven by the skin of one's teeth or missing out by the same margin is pretty scary. It also doesn't seem particularly just to me.

[Jeremy Mason]

Originally posted from "Is Baptism Essential for Salvation into Heaven"
Romans 8:17
17Now if we are children, then we are heirs—heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, if indeed we share in his sufferings in order that we may also share in his glory.

Here Paul describes the children of God as heirs of the Father and co-heirs with Christ. I think I'm reading this right. You might not agree with it but that is what it says.

[Jeremy Mason]

Originally Posted by Katzpur

Hi, Jeremy. I hope you don't mind if I repeat my post to you from the thread on baptism. It applies to this thread.

Thank you for taking the time out to do that, it means alot to me.

[quote][I don't believe that everyone who enters heaven will be a joint-heir with Christ, but then I probably believe that a whole lot more people will end up in Heaven than you do, so who knows -- the numbers may even out./QUOTE]

I cannot judge anyone and don't plan on doing so, the numbers are only known by God.

Just as an example, let's say you believe that 5 out of every 10,000 people who have ever lived will find the straight and narrow path that leads to eternal life and that every one of those 5 will become joint-heirs with Christ. Let's say I believe that 9,999 of the same 10,000 will be permitted to enter heaven but that only 4 of those 9,999 lived a good enough life (i.e. were obedient to God's commandments and faithful to the teachings of Jesus Christ) to become joint-heirs with Christ. Your Church's doctrine will send 9,995 people to Hell, while mine will send only 1 to Hell and 9,999 to Heaven, with 4 of them becoming joint-heirs with Christ. I'll take my Church's brand of tension over yours any day!

If you are right, then I would join your church. I don't want anyone to go to Hell. The point I was referring to was the parables and the message they describe. Do you believe that those parables are right and God breathed?

Are you saying that the world's population is going to be split down the middle -- half going to Heaven and half going to Hell? Or are you just saying that everything is going to be very black and white with no shades of gray? I'd agree that the idea of getting into Heaven by the skin of one's teeth or missing out by the same margin is pretty scary. It also doesn't seem particularly just to me.

I can't find any Scriptural evidence to support a split down the middle, but the black and white analogy parallels the message of the parables, if you have a different interpretation of the parables, I would love to hear them. I don't believe the chosen ones will fall under such minimal margins either. As I have said, the blood of Christ atones for all inequity of those who except his grace.

Thanks again for the input, I love referencing your knowledge.

[sandy whitelinger]

Originally Posted by madhatter85

1st corinthians:


He (Paul) is speaking of the resurrection of all men, all mankind will be redeemed from physical Death, that is the free gift Given to all mankind.

But with the resurrection comes the varying degrees of Glory. becuase all men sow thier own fate, the grace of Jesus Christ is sufficient for those who obey his commandments. All are subject to the demands and law of Justice. and all men are accountable for thier actions and choices based on thier knowledge and the desires of thier heart.

Just as there are people who posess more knowledge than others, so how can all mankind be judged fairly if there was only 2 options? Heaven or Hell? nonsense.

Peopel who believe that if you die right now you will go to hell for eternity. have they forgotten about the resurrections of all mankind? go to hell just to come out again and be resurrected? i think not. there has to be a waiting place for the soulds of the dead to await the resurrection and final judgement.

You butchered that passage. The difference being illustrated is the difference between the natural body and the spiritual body. It's in the last verse you offered.

[madhatter85]

Originally Posted by sandy whitelinger

You butchered that passage. The difference being illustrated is the difference between the natural body and the spiritual body. It's in the last verse you offered.

well then we will just agree to disagree because i believe he is talking about the resurrection and the varying degrees of glory afterwards.