Rewards in Heaven (Jesus Christ, ritual, salvation, grace, blood)

[Katzpur]

Thanks for your comments, Jeremy. I have just a couple of additional thoughts. How do you interpret the following verse?

2 Corinthians 12:2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth, such an one caught up to the third heaven.

[Jeremy Mason]

Originally Posted by Katzpur

Thanks for your comments, Jeremy. I have just a couple of additional thoughts. How do you interpret the following verse?

2 Corinthians 12:2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth, such an one caught up to the third heaven.

My pleasure!
Paul simple was unsure of his actual state (In bodily form or not) at the time he was with Christ.

The first heaven is the earths atmosphere.
The second is outer space, moon, stars, sun, etc...
Gen 1:1

1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

The third Heaven = Paradise.
Hebrews 4:14 (NIV)

14Therefore, since we have a great high priest who has gone through the heavens,[a] Jesus the Son of God, let us hold firmly to the faith we profess.

Eph 4:10

10He who descended is the very one who ascended higher than all the heavens, in order to fill the whole universe.)

Heb 7:26

26Such a high priest meets our need—one who is holy, blameless, pure, set apart from sinners, exalted above the heavens.

In these Scriptures, Jesus goes through the first two and resides in the third/Paradise.

[Katzpur]

So you're saying that "Paradise" is the same thing as what we are normally referring to when we say "Heaven"?

[Jeremy Mason]

Originally Posted by Katzpur

So you're saying that "Paradise" is the same thing as what we are normally referring to when we say "Heaven"?

Yes, I believe Paradise is Heaven.

[Katzpur]

Originally Posted by Jeremy Mason

Yes, I believe Paradise is Heaven.

Then consider the following passages from the Bible:

Luke 23:42-43 And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom. And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.

John 20:16-17 Jesus saith unto her, Mary. She turned herself, and saith unto him, Rabboni; which is to say, Master. Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

On Friday, the day He was crucified, Christ promised the thief who hung next to Him on the cross that on that same day they would see one another again in Paradise. On Sunday, the day He rose from the dead, Christ told Mary not to touch Him because He had not yet ascended to His Father. It seems to me that Heaven and Paradise are not one and the same. Otherwise, Christ could not have been in Paradise with the thief but not yet been in Heaven with His Father. (I'm not trying to change the topic, by the way. I'm just trying to point out what to me is a common misunderstanding about Paradise and Heaven.)

[Jeremy Mason]

[quote]

Originally Posted by Katzpur

Then consider the following passages from the Bible:

Luke 23:42-43 And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom. And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.

John 20:16-17 Jesus saith unto her, Mary. She turned herself, and saith unto him, Rabboni; which is to say, Master. Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

John 20:16-17 (NIV)
"16Jesus said to her, "Mary."
She turned toward him and cried out in Aramaic, "Rabboni!" (which means Teacher). 17Jesus said, "Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet returned to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, 'I am returning to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.' "

Wow, I was about to use that Scripture ( Luke 23:42-43) and decided not to because of other reasons but you didn't let me off the hook so easily and have put me in a bit of a quandary.

Ok, we have a little bit of a paradox. In Luke 23:43 Jesus says, " To day shalt thou be with me in paradise". In John 20:17 Jesus says, "for I am not yet ascended to my Father"

For starts, Jesus wouldn't lie so I believe he did go to Heaven/ Paradise when he died.
"To day shalt thou be with me in paradise."

Possibility #1
While Jesus, the Father and the Spirit are different persons, Jesus might have referenced one of the other persons of God to be the one that meet the thief in Heaven.

Possibility#2
Jesus did meet the thief in Heaven/Paradise has come back down to earth and still will go back to Heaven/Paradise/Father; as he did. Anything is possible with God.

Other paradox is why wouldn't he let Mary touch him and then let Thomas touch him later???

I'm sure there is a reason why he said these things and I'm going to need more time to investigate.

[sandy whitelinger]

Originally Posted by madhatter85

well then we will just agree to disagree because i believe he is talking about the resurrection and the varying degrees of glory afterwards.

You can believe anything you want that doesn't make it true. Being able to read and follow meaning is important when studying the Bible, not having it say any old thing you want.

[Katzpur]

Originally Posted by sandy whitelinger

You can believe anything you want that doesn't make it true. Being able to read and follow meaning is important when studying the Bible, not having it say any old thing you want.

This is a two-way street, Sandy. What you believe may not be any more true than what MH and I believe. For you to imply that everyone who disagrees with you is formulating his beliefs first and then trying to make the scriptures fit in with what he believes really isn't fair. Most of the scriptures can be interpreted in more than one way and to just assume that anyone who is sincerely trying to get it right is going to see things your way is pretty naive.

[Katzpur]

Originally Posted by Jeremy Mason