I want communion!!!! (Jesus Christ, ritual, blood, churches, scriptures)

[Dunemeister]

Originally Posted by Scott1

"Whoever, therefore, eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of profaning the body and blood of the Lord. Let a man examine himself, and so eat of the bread and drink of the cup. For any one who eats and drinks without discerning the body eats and drinks judgment upon himself."

Context, Scott1, please. The Corinthian church was using communion as a means of favoring rich over poor. Thus the communion was being used as an occasion to honor some and shame others. Paul reminds them that the table is a place for reconciliation and the destruction of social barriers. Eating and drinking "unworthily" has nothing to do with believing in Aristotelian metaphysics.

[Scott1]

Originally Posted by sojourner

this is fine, but it doesn't work that way in the real world. All Xians are in a state of grace, because they have claimed that state as their reality, through Christ. Number 1 taken care of.

Ok... just not for Catholics or Orthodox.

2: I have known RCs who are given communion without having been asked either if they've committed a mortal sin, or when their last confession was.

Their Communion is sinful as well....

3: Some RCs patently don't believe in transubstantiation. They receive anyway.

Their Communion is sinful as well....

4: Most Catholics I have known have never observed the Eucharistic fast and receive regularly.

Their Communion is sinful as well....

Are these folks all receiving under false pretenses? Or are really "not receiving communion?" If so, are their souls not in danger?

I don't presume to know that exact state of their souls... but their behavior in certainly sinful... especially if they know better.

None. NO fences. We accept all prior baptisms.

You forgot to mention the UN-baptised....

But that practice, done ardently by a non-catholic, is not efficacious???

The grace/effects of the Eucharist are fully present in the Eucharist... but it is up to the individual and their personal disposition to receive the fullness of the Sacrament...... that is the true measure of how the Eucharist "works" in a Christian.

So, for this reason, it certainly is possible for a non-Catholice to receive more "grace/effect" from their service than a improperly disposed Catholic receiving the Eucharist. Remember, God is not bound by the Sacraments.... if it is God's will, he'll pour down grace to whomever He chooses.

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Originally Posted by Dunemeister

Context, Scott1, please.

I don't doubt your interpretation.... I just choose to follow the teaching of the early Church. This "interpretation" you believe to be incorrect, was supported since the begining of the Church.... not only that, but they believed anyone who would choose to abstain from the Eucharist was also putting their soul in jeopardy:

"They abstain from the Eucharist and from prayer because they do not confess that the Eucharist is the flesh of our Savior Jesus Christ, flesh which suffered for our sins and which that Father, in his goodness, raised up again. They who deny the gift of God are perishing in their disputes" (Letter to the Smyrnaeans 6:2–7:1 [Ignatius of Antioch A.D. 110]).

[sojourner]

Originally Posted by Scott1

Ok... just not for Catholics or Orthodox.

Their Communion is sinful as well....

Their Communion is sinful as well....

Their Communion is sinful as well....

I don't presume to know that exact state of their souls... but their behavior in certainly sinful... especially if they know better.

You forgot to mention the UN-baptised....

The grace/effects of the Eucharist are fully present in the Eucharist... but it is up to the individual and their personal disposition to receive the fullness of the Sacrament...... that is the true measure of how the Eucharist "works" in a Christian.

So, for this reason, it certainly is possible for a non-Catholice to receive more "grace/effect" from their service than a improperly disposed Catholic receiving the Eucharist. Remember, God is not bound by the Sacraments.... if it is God's will, he'll pour down grace to whomever He chooses.

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I don't doubt your interpretation.... I just choose to follow the teaching of the early Church. This "interpretation" you believe to be incorrect, was supported since the begining of the Church.... not only that, but they believed anyone who would choose to abstain from the Eucharist was also putting their soul in jeopardy:

"They abstain from the Eucharist and from prayer because they do not confess that the Eucharist is the flesh of our Savior Jesus Christ, flesh which suffered for our sins and which that Father, in his goodness, raised up again. They who deny the gift of God are perishing in their disputes" (Letter to the Smyrnaeans 6:2–7:1 [Ignatius of Antioch A.D. 110]).

scott:
I'm taking this convo. to our one-on-one.