I want communion!!!! (Jesus Christ, ritual, blood, churches, scriptures)

[rheff78]

Originally Posted by Dunemeister

Well, that's an example of what I said earlier about forsaking the law of Christ for the sake of tradition. Mass may be centered around transubstantiation for the RCC. But that's a massive mistake. Mass ought to be centered around Christ himself.

Well, it IS centered around Christ himself and the sacrifice he made for all of us. hence, consuming the body, blood, sould and divinity of Christ.

[rheff78]

Originally Posted by sojourner

The Jews started salvation, too, and they thought about it in a particular way. Christians think about it in another way. Shall we all go back to sacrificing sheep on a temple altar, because we're not participating in "real" salvation?

I understand how you think about the Eucharist, and I respect it. I don't think you're "wrong" for thinking about it in terms of flesh and blood. But even St. Francis wrote about the eucharist thus:
"O sublime humility! O humble sublimity! That the Lord of the universe, God and the Son of God so humbles himself that for our salvation he hides himself under the little form of bread!"

This indicates a range of understanding. I really don't think this has anything more or less to do with anything other than petulence. "Fine. If you don't like the way I share my toys, then you can go play somewhere else...and forget about me sharing the Kool-Aid with you." (Granted, there are Protestants who are just as petulent.) Isn't it time we followed Paul's advice to put away childish things?

Well, this range was later addressed in different counsels that were held. But what do you mean "childish things". If you are referring to the Eucharist, then no.

[sojourner]

Originally Posted by rheff78

Well, this range was later addressed in different counsels that were held. But what do you mean "childish things". If you are referring to the Eucharist, then no.

I suggest that broader ecumenical councils are needed, in which RCC leaders can discuss things of ecumenical importance (such as the Eucharist) with leaders of other branches of the Church. What I'm suggesting is childish, is the viewpoint that Christ (the Eucharist) "belongs" to a certain group, and that we refuse to share him with "others." In fact, we belong to him (and to the Eucharist), and it is Christ who shares himself with us in the Eucharist. Why should we curtail that sharing -- that abundance of life that Christ came to bring to us?

[rheff78]

Oh I see. I agree that Christ beongs to all of us. But you can't pick and choose what you like about the RCC and what you don't like. I guess that what it boils down to. You may believe in transubstantiation but you don't believe in "all" of the Church practices and beliefs. Maybe Scott can give you a better answer than me, but that's all I got. Sorry.

[sojourner]

Originally Posted by rheff78

Oh I see. I agree that Christ beongs to all of us. But you can't pick and choose what you like about the RCC and what you don't like. I guess that what it boils down to. You may believe in transubstantiation but you don't believe in "all" of the Church practices and beliefs. Maybe Scott can give you a better answer than me, but that's all I got. Sorry.

I don't understand what you mean. Of course I can pick and choose what I like about the RCC. That's why I'm not RC. It doesn't facilitate faith for me. But I also understand that it does for others. and one of the things I don't like is that the RCC seems to want to corner the market on grace, as it comes to us through the Eucharist, thereby dividing us. I have brothers and sisters in the RCC, but I can't sit down to a meal and share Christ with them. Unless I agree to do things "their way." It's sad.

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Originally Posted by rheff78

Oh I see. I agree that Christ beongs to all of us. But you can't pick and choose what you like about the RCC and what you don't like. I guess that what it boils down to. You may believe in transubstantiation but you don't believe in "all" of the Church practices and beliefs. Maybe Scott can give you a better answer than me, but that's all I got. Sorry.

rheff, where do you (or the RCC) fit the sentiment expressed in Romans 14 into this equation?

[rheff78]

Originally Posted by sojourner

I don't understand what you mean. Of course I can pick and choose what I like about the RCC. That's why I'm not RC. It doesn't facilitate faith for me. But I also understand that it does for others. and one of the things I don't like is that the RCC seems to want to corner the market on grace, as it comes to us through the Eucharist, thereby dividing us. I have brothers and sisters in the RCC, but I can't sit down to a meal and share Christ with them. Unless I agree to do things "their way." It's sad.

I know you don't beleive in everything the RC does, otherwise we wouldn't be having the plesent conversation.
I honestly don't think we "have the market on grace". I still believe it is the Protestants that have divided us. I'm sorry, I really don't mean to offend, we are still brothers and sisters in Christ.

[rheff78]

Originally Posted by 9-10ths_Penguin

rheff, where do you (or the RCC) fit the sentiment expressed in Romans 14 into this equation?

My bible versus are terrible and I'm too lazy to look for it. What does Romans 14 say?

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Originally Posted by rheff78

My bible versus are terrible and I'm too lazy to look for it. What does Romans 14 say?

Here are the most relevant (IMO) verses (NLT):

1Accept him whose faith is weak, without passing judgment on disputable matters.

13Therefore let us stop passing judgment on one another. Instead, make up your mind not to put any stumbling block or obstacle in your brother's way.

19Let us therefore make every effort to do what leads to peace and to mutual edification.

From Biblegateway.com, which has dozens of Bible versions but unfortunately doesn't have the Vulgate, so you may want to confirm in your own Bible, but hopefully the message is the same in both versions.