Roman Catholics are less Christain compared to LDS? (punishment, gospel)

[idea]

On a side note - considereing who are the "real" Christians etc... the question came up in RS if the LDS are really the only true church - that there are still "Lost tribes" out there, the Levites have the priesthood too - that there are a few people who were promised they would live until the second coming walking around and we do not know where they are or who they are meeting with... that there may be some other groups out there that we do not know about - or perhaps Monson knows but we are not given to know...

[rheff78]

Originally Posted by uss_bigd

I stated in a previous verse that the LDS are more Christian than Roman catholics and i was asked to create a thread about it.

I wish to limit the discussion to specific biblical facts in so that we can have a meaningfull discussion that can be blown wide open to confusion.

Here we Go, the LDS beleives:

.

This is consistent in part if not as a whole to the following verses:

1 Timothy 2:4
who wants all men to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth.

and

1 Corinthians 5:13

God will judge those outside. "Expel the wicked man from among you."

The RCC according to Francis Cassily's book " religion: doctrine and practice on page 355 states this:




I think thats cruel, I'd rather be mormon than catholic....

ok, ummm, where to start? I have never heard of this person. And that IS NOT the doctrine of the Catholic Church. Whoever this person is, he does not speak for all Catholics. Secondly, it will be hard to base this strictly on bible because Catholics are not Solo-Scriptura.

[*Paul*]

I'm sure some people got closer to Noah's ark than others, but all except those chosen few on the ark were drowned.

[sojourner]

I don't think that Christianity is, in any way, a matter of degree. One cannot be a "better," or "higher," or "truer," or "More" Christian than someone else who is a Christian. Paul argued for equality. So did Jesus.

[sojourner]

Originally Posted by *Paul*

I'm sure some people got closer to Noah's ark than others, but all except those chosen few on the ark were drowned.

That's fine, but then the Noah story isn't arguing for salvation in the same way that later texts do.

[Scott1]

Originally Posted by rheff78

have never heard of this person. And that IS NOT the doctrine of the Catholic Church.

Well.... yes it is.... but it's not quite as "black and white" as it sounds:

From the Catechism of the Catholic Church (846-848):

"Outside the Church there is no salvation"

How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers? Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body:
Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation ; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.

This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church:
Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation.

"Although in ways known to himself God can lead those who, through no fault of their own, are ignorant of the Gospel, to that faith without which it is impossible to please him, the Church still has the obligation and also the sacred right to evangelize all men."

My lay person's take on the subject is as follows:


"Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it."

There is no salvation outside of the Church for CATHOLICS who believe that the RCC was founded by Christ and then REJECT IT.

NON-Catholics, ............Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation.

To believe that Christ founded the Church, that his body, blood, soul, and divinity is present in the Eucharist and then WALK AWAY from it would be insane.

I am not saying that everyone should believe the teaching of the RCC, but just try to understand that for those WHO DO believe, and still refuse to enter in or to leave the Church there is no salvation.

I hope this helps clear up any confusion about this topic.

[rheff78]

Originally Posted by Scott1

Well.... yes it is.... but it's not quite as "black and white" as it sounds:

From the Catechism of the Catholic Church (846-848):

"Outside the Church there is no salvation"

How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers? Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body:
Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation ; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.

This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church:
Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation.

"Although in ways known to himself God can lead those who, through no fault of their own, are ignorant of the Gospel, to that faith without which it is impossible to please him, the Church still has the obligation and also the sacred right to evangelize all men."

My lay person's take on the subject is as follows:


"Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it."

There is no salvation outside of the Church for CATHOLICS who believe that the RCC was founded by Christ and then REJECT IT.

NON-Catholics, ............Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation.

To believe that Christ founded the Church, that his body, blood, soul, and divinity is present in the Eucharist and then WALK AWAY from it would be insane.

I am not saying that everyone should believe the teaching of the RCC, but just try to understand that for those WHO DO believe, and still refuse to enter in or to leave the Church there is no salvation.

I hope this helps clear up any confusion about this topic.

excellent post. You put it so much more eloquently than I oculd have. I was actually just thinking how I could add to my post when I saw yours.

[madhatter85]

Here is my questions

Do you believe God is perfect?

Do you believe God is organized?

If You believe God is perfect and organized, do you believe he would have 50,000 Different way to reach him that all contradict eachother? or would there be 1 set way that he has prepared for all to follow to reach him an obtain everlasting life?

now if you agree.... In order for a church to be perfect and true there has to be salvation prepared for those who never in this life had a chance to learn or understand the true path to follow. otherwise the world is a waste and God is a respecter of persons, No?

Catholics are Chrisitans just like us. they just have a different idea as to the nature of God and Jesus Christ than us.