His Life or His death? (Christ, charity)

[mball1297]

Originally Posted by sandy whitelinger

The events that lead up to THE event are only relevent in that they got Him there. Beyond that their meaning is seperate from what followed.

If A can't happen without B, though, I'd say that makes B as important as A, especially since the idea is that A doesn't happen for us either without B.

[sandy whitelinger]

Originally Posted by mball1297

If A can't happen without B, though, I'd say that makes B as important as A, especially since the idea is that A doesn't happen for us either without B.

You are allowed to muddle everything together if you wish. A does not equal B though.

[lilithu]

Originally Posted by sandy whitelinger

The events that lead up to THE event are only relevent in that they got Him there. Beyond that their meaning is seperate from what followed.

If the only thing that matters is Jesus being murdered for our sins, then why did Joseph and Mary bother to flee into Egypt. They might as well have handed the infant to Herod and have done with it.

[mball1297]

Originally Posted by sandy whitelinger

You are allowed to muddle everything together if you wish. A does not equal B though.

I don't know why you call it muddling. It's very simple. Jesus's life paved the way for his death to mean what it did. Without the life he led, his death would not have meant anything. It seems pretty clear to me that his life was pretty important then.

It's kind of like my marriage. I would say my meeting my wife is just as important as my marriage with her, since without meeting her, I can't marry her.

[waacman]

Originally Posted by sandy whitelinger

I'm attempting to move a bunny trail to a new thread.

Is it the life of Christ that saves man or His death?

I would say neither, his resurrection saved us.

actually, its prob a combo of all three, they all seem important

[Mr. Peanut]

Romans 5:8-10 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him. For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Here in Romans 5 and other places it says we were reconciled, justified, by the death, blood of Christ. Then it says that "much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life." What does that mean, exactly? We see that Christ lived a perfect, sinless life and was the lamb without blemish, thus the only one who could die and pay for all the sins of all the world once and for all time. That we must simply cease from our own efforts or "works of righeousness", and trust Christ to have paid for all our sins. He paid for ALL the sins of everyone in the world, past, present, and future, (all means ALL). This is the simple faith unto salvation, which happens in a moment in time. This is being saved "by his blood, his death". MUCH MORE, (now) being reconciled we shall be saved by his life. This life is the resurrection life! The fact that Christ rose physically from the dead, being the "first fruits", is our joyous, sure hope, that we, too will be resurrected to life in our transformed, sinless, immortal, glorified bodies.

We have been saved because we trusted that Christ paid our sin debt in full. He gave us his righteousness and took our sins. We still live in a mortal body and still have our old sinful nature. But, we have had our spirits reborn, quickened, made alive. We have the "seed of God" in us. When we sin, it is not our new nature that sins, but the old, not the new regenerated spirit, but the old man. But this is the promise, that because Christ now lives, since he conquered the grave, he rose again, he shall also raise us up, and our transformation will be complete. This is spoken of in Corinthians and Thessalonians:

1 Cor. 15: 51Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
55O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?
56The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law. 57But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

1 Thess. 4: 13But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
14For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
15For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 18Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

Also, because we have been justified freely from all our sins, because Jesus rose again, because we have been indwelt, sealed and gifted with the Holy Spirit, because our spirit has been born again, made alive by Christ, he gives us the power to overcome sin in our lives, not to get saved or keep saved, but to grow in grace. Remember, salvation takes but a moment, it is a free gift, growth takes a lifetime and is painful at times. Yet is possible because Christ is risen, Christ is risen indeed!

[Fish-Hunter]

I think we need to understand what Christ saved us from, from whom, and to whom. We were saved from the wrath of God, God as judge to God as Heavenly Father. In the person and work of Jesus Christ on behalf of believers, both his life and death are equally important. Jesus not only died for us, He also lived for us. All that Christ did in both His life and death, He did in our place as our substitute. There are two major aspects of Christ's obedience called active obedience and passive obedience. They refer to the two works of Christ in regards to God's law. The law contains both precepts and penalties. The precepts are to be FULLY obeyed, and the penalties are imposed for the least infraction of the precepts. When the apostle Paul wrote that Christ was "born under law" (Gal 4:4), he was referring the universal moral law or will of God. Jesus was born under the law because He came to perfectly obey it in our place. It is this perfect obedience to the moral will of God that constitutes His active obedience. In contrast, Jesus passively obeyed the Father's specific will for Him, namely to suffer the penalty for our sin.

In His active obedience, Christ merited eternal blessings for those who are united to Him. Christ actually merited the grace of God on the believer's behalf. Note the testimony of the Father: "This is my Son, whom I love; with Him I am well pleased". We are able to receive the unsearchable riches that are found in Christ, because Jesus earned the Father's eternal blessings on our behalf. His life earned our grace and eternal blessings. His death earned or merited our eternal forgiveness for our sins (past, present, future). Thus, the person and work of Christ on behalf of the elect of God is everything, and our vital union with Him is the key to receiving both the benefits of His life and death through faith.

[sandy whitelinger]

Originally Posted by mball1297

If A can't happen without B, though, I'd say that makes B as important as A, especially since the idea is that A doesn't happen for us either without B.

So sharpening your pencil is as momentous and meaningful as getting a perfect score on the SAT's with that sharpened pencil?

[sandy whitelinger]

Originally Posted by lilithu

If the only thing that matters is Jesus being murdered for our sins, then why did Joseph and Mary bother to flee into Egypt. They might as well have handed the infant to Herod and have done with it.

Because then He would not have died according to the scriptures.