His Life or His death? (Christ, charity)

[Katzpur]

Originally Posted by sandy whitelinger

How do you explain this in light of something as simple as John 3:16-18?

1. I believe in a loving God who has provided a way for even those who did not have the opportunity to hear the gospel of Jesus Christ during their lives to have that opportunity before they are judged. I believe that there are people who lived at a time or in a place where the gospel message was not known or that, for various circumstances beyond their control, they were unable to understand and accept it during their lifetimes.

2. I believe in a Heaven where people are rewarded according to their works, and not in a one-size-fits-all kind of place. I believe in the three degrees of glory Paul spoke of in his discourse on the resurrection. While none of these is the same as being damned, there will be a marked difference between them.

3. I believe that those who do not accept Christ's Atonement will have to suffer for their own sins before entering Heaven and that they will ultimately have at least some degree of the heavenly glory God has in store for all of us.

[logician]

Originally Posted by Charity

I don't believe some people would be saved unless they realized how much he loved us that He was willing to die in order for us to live. ?

How did his supposed death cause me to live?

[lilithu]

Originally Posted by The Seeker

I'm no expert on the scriptures, but I do believe that, according to scripture, you only need to accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior in order to get into Heaven.

It depends on which scripture.

Matthew 25: 31-46

31"When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his throne in heavenly glory. 32All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left. 34"Then the King will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.'
37"Then the righteous will answer him, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?'
40"The King will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.'
41"Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.'
44"They also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?'
45"He will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.'
46"Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."


There's also this favorite of mine:

James 2:14-26

14What good is it, my brothers, if a man claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save him? 15Suppose a brother or sister is without clothes and daily food. 16If one of you says to him, "Go, I wish you well; keep warm and well fed," but does nothing about his physical needs, what good is it? 17In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead. 18But someone will say, "You have faith; I have deeds."
Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by what I do.
19You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder.
20You foolish man, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless? 21Was not our ancestor Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? 22You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did. 23And the scripture was fulfilled that says, "Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness," and he was called God's friend. 24You see that a person is justified by what he does and not by faith alone.
25In the same way, was not even Rahab the prostitute considered righteous for what she did when she gave lodging to the spies and sent them off in a different direction? 26As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead.

[lilithu]

Originally Posted by sandy whitelinger

Is it the life of Christ that saves man or His death?

You know my answer brother Sandy.

"Choose LIFE so that you and your descendants may live."

[sandy whitelinger]

Originally Posted by mball1297

In other words you're suggesting that the Bible doesn't tell us how to live our lives in order to enter heaven, andall we have to do is believe Jesus is the Son of God and then die, and we get into heaven. Thanks for the clarification.

Again, all I am suggesting is that you give the scriptures that tell us how to live in order to enter heaven. I may have to soon believe that you are unable to do so, for whatever reason.

[sandy whitelinger]

Originally Posted by lilithu

You know my answer brother Sandy.

I doubt we are related.

Originally Posted by lilithu

"Choose LIFE so that you and your descendants may live."

Is this supposed to mean something?

[sandy whitelinger]

Originally Posted by lilithu

It depends on which scripture.

Matthew 25: 31-46

31"When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his throne in heavenly glory. 32All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left. 34"Then the King will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.'
37"Then the righteous will answer him, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?'
40"The King will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.'
41"Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.'
44"They also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?'
45"He will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.'
46"Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."


There's also this favorite of mine:

James 2:14-26

14What good is it, my brothers, if a man claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save him? 15Suppose a brother or sister is without clothes and daily food. 16If one of you says to him, "Go, I wish you well; keep warm and well fed," but does nothing about his physical needs, what good is it? 17In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead. 18But someone will say, "You have faith; I have deeds."
Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by what I do.
19You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder.
20You foolish man, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless? 21Was not our ancestor Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? 22You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did. 23And the scripture was fulfilled that says, "Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness," and he was called God's friend. 24You see that a person is justified by what he does and not by faith alone.
25In the same way, was not even Rahab the prostitute considered righteous for what she did when she gave lodging to the spies and sent them off in a different direction? 26As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead.

Here:
Works of Righteousness
are all of what I have found to be the pertinent verses concerning works vs. faith and how I believe they relate.

[Scott1]

Originally Posted by sojourner

It is the Incarnation that saves. God With Us. By that act, all are reconciled to God, and are no longer separate from God.

Amen!

Pour forth, we beseech Thee, O Lord, Thy grace into our hearts; that, we to whom the Incarnation of Christ, Thy Son, was made known by the message of an Angel, may by His Passion and Cross, be brought to the glory of His Resurrection. Through the same Christ our Lord.