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  #21  
Old 05-12-2008, 06:38 PM
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Originally Posted by mball1297 View Post
I'm sure there was humor and sarcasm in here, but it went over my head. Would you mind explaining for the mentally impaired such as myself?
Well, I'm glad you picked up on my intent, if not on the details. Surely you've heard of "sola fide." Faith alone. That is the standard Evangelical Christian understanding of how we are saved. I've been told that good works don't matter in the slightest. I've even had Evangelicals tell me that God is offended that we believe we must be obedient to His commandments, and that when we do good works, we are insulting Him by implying that Jesus' Atonement wasn't good enough. I know that's not the Catholic position, and I know you were formerly a Catholic, so that's why I made the statement.
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  #22  
Old 05-12-2008, 09:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Katzpur View Post
Well, I'm glad you picked up on my intent, if not on the details. Surely you've heard of "sola fide." Faith alone. That is the standard Evangelical Christian understanding of how we are saved. I've been told that good works don't matter in the slightest. I've even had Evangelicals tell me that God is offended that we believe we must be obedient to His commandments, and that when we do good works, we are insulting Him by implying that Jesus' Atonement wasn't good enough. I know that's not the Catholic position, and I know you were formerly a Catholic, so that's why I made the statement.
Wow, thanks. That makes no sense to me, as I'm sure it doesn't to you either. I'd have a few questions for those people, although I have the feeling I already know the answers I'd get and they wouldn't be satisfactory.
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  #23  
Old 05-13-2008, 07:56 AM
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Originally Posted by DallasApple View Post
For me it was his life...and HIs death was evidence of how serious he was about His life and teachings.....the Christ suffered over how he lived His life..His message in a nut shell was love..then He was treated in a cruel unloving and brutal way..but he never wavered from his message.

Love

Dallas
How does this make Jesus any different from Socrates?
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  #24  
Old 05-13-2008, 09:12 AM
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It is the Incarnation that saves. God With Us. By that act, all are reconciled to God, and are no longer separate from God.
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  #25  
Old 05-15-2008, 12:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Dunemeister View Post
His death and resurrected life are inseperable as far as salvation is concerned. Take away one or the other and salvation is undone.
The implication to the OP is that it was His life before the resurrection that is in question.
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  #26  
Old 05-15-2008, 12:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DallasApple View Post
For me it was his life...and HIs death was evidence of how serious he was about His life and teachings.....the Christ suffered over how he lived His life..His message in a nut shell was love..then He was treated in a cruel unloving and brutal way..but he never wavered from his message.

Love

Dallas
You seem to be missing the whole concept that the Father requires a payment for sin. The wages of sin is death. It was Christ's death that made the substitutionary payment for all of mankind in order that we could be resurrected.
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  #27  
Old 05-15-2008, 12:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Katzpur View Post
Neither one does, in and of itself. His life certainly provides us with an example of what God expects of us. His atoning sacrifice in Gethsamane and on Calvary was what made it possible for us to be redeemed of our sins. But without His resurrection, neither His life nor His death would have ultimately made any difference.
This is a truth.
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  #28  
Old 05-15-2008, 02:42 PM
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Originally Posted by mball1297 View Post
Are you suggesting all you have to do is believe Jesus is the Son of God and then die to get into Heaven?
Actually I was suggesting that you give the scriptures relating to how a person needs to live in order to enter heaven.
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  #29