Revelations, for current times or history?? (Jesus, Earth, beliefs, America)

[lmnmom]

Before I go into the subject, I personally believe that some of it is applicable to modern times, and some of the book was a message to Christians at the time. All right, here we go.

Revelations was written by John, who had been banished by the Roman emperor Nero to the island of Patmos. Now, at this time Christians were actually a very small group of people who had branched off from Judaism. Nero didn't like them, and constantly persecuted, tortured, and killed Christians. John, the author of Revelations, actually preached that the second coming of Christ was near, and that was a common belief at this time. So I'm going to look at 3 Revelations, and point out how they could be very applicable to the time John was writing in, and not necessarily meant to be taken as a vision of the future.

The first, the harlot who sits on a beast and resides in an city surrounded by 7 mountains. The harlot is dressed in purple. Rome (which would have been the capitol for the Romans at the time - in case you couldn't figure that out) is surrounded by 7 mountains, and the royal color of Rome at the time was purple. It's safe to say that John could have easily been referring to Rome.

Second, the actual beast that is mentioned in Revelations was described to have a fatal head wound, but had survived it. Christians at the time believed that Nero was still alive, despite the fact that he had a scribe help him committ suicide. The similarities are obvious - they believed Nero was alive despite a fatal wound and the beast in Revelations was still alive despite inflicting a fatal wound.

Third, we address the numbers 666. I know some studies have come out saying it's 616, not 666, but for the time being we'll just keep it at 666. At the time, most Christians wrote in Hebrew, including John. Hebrew numbers have associations with letters, and oddly enough the association for 666 is Nero. The mark of the beast is 666, which could mean Nero. Considering the similarity with the fatal wound as well, it would be safe to say that John could have easily been referring to what was happening in Rome at the time, and not some future prophecy.

I thought this was interesting, and just want to see what others think of it.

[Random]

Revelations is still hugely relevant.

[UnityNow101]

It is relevant ONLY if you choose to make it so. And to many, it is relevant because they have been brought up believing that the details of the end of the world are found in the text. Nobody can truly say either way.

[Green Kepi]

We must always remember to look at this Book thru "1st Century glasses". It appears to be a history of the Church and I think most of all the Book's symbols were fulfilled after the time Jerusalem was destroyed in 70 A.D. We must read it as if looking over the shoulder of the 1st Century believers. It's full of symbolic visions written for 1st Century Christians suffering under Roman occupation. For most extent, American culture has always known success, not suffering, so we've never known what to do with this part of the Bible. But...after all discussions and debates...are over...if we understand none of this...the only thing we need to take away from this Book - is that in the end...God and Jesus WINS and Christians win!!!

[BalanceFx]

Along with young earth believers there is another growing christian cult fascinated with the end of the world. Fascinated may not be the right word... infatuated and hoping for and obsessed with may be closer.

They call it rapture, armegeddon and other such names. (I recently ran into a few) Some actually not just hope for but reason it is the christians responsibility to speed it a long. (They normally attribute this belief to revelations)

I have also debated the future of the planet before and of human life and been countered with it doesn't matter, god will take care of his christians. Silly really. Yes but should those people become influential or be given any measure of power their idealogical and ultimately delusional beliefs will serve to hurt more then themselves.

[Dunemeister]

Originally Posted by BalanceFx

Along with young earth believers there is another growing christian cult fascinated with the end of the world. Fascinated may not be the right word... infatuated and hoping for and obsessed with may be closer.

They call it rapture, armegeddon and other such names. (I recently ran into a few) Some actually not just hope for but reason it is the christians responsibility to speed it a long. (They normally attribute this belief to revelations)

I have also debated the future of the planet before and of human life and been countered with it doesn't matter, god will take care of his christians. Silly really. Yes but should those people become influential or be given any measure of power their idealogical and ultimately delusional beliefs will serve to hurt more then themselves.

These guys already have a great deal of power. This perspective is behind America's rather unflinching and unreflective support of Israel. And it also underwrites consumerist culture. We can do what we want with our resources because after all, God will sort it out in the end.

This is not the fault of Revelation, despite the fact that these ideas are inspired by certain passages. It has everything to do with not understanding how to use apocalyptic texts.

[BalanceFx]

Originally Posted by Dunemeister

These guys already have a great deal of power. This perspective is behind America's rather unflinching and unreflective support of Israel. And it also underwrites consumerist culture. We can do what we want with our resources because after all, God will sort it out in the end.

This is not the fault of Revelation, despite the fact that these ideas are inspired by certain passages. It has everything to do with not understanding how to use apocalyptic texts.

Using them to control the masses?

[sandy whitelinger]

Originally Posted by lmnmom

Before I go into the subject, I personally believe that some of it is applicable to modern times, and some of the book was a message to Christians at the time. All right, here we go.

Revelations was written by John, who had been banished by the Roman emperor Nero to the island of Patmos. Now, at this time Christians were actually a very small group of people who had branched off from Judaism. Nero didn't like them, and constantly persecuted, tortured, and killed Christians. John, the author of Revelations, actually preached that the second coming of Christ was near, and that was a common belief at this time. So I'm going to look at 3 Revelations, and point out how they could be very applicable to the time John was writing in, and not necessarily meant to be taken as a vision of the future.

The first, the harlot who sits on a beast and resides in an city surrounded by 7 mountains. The harlot is dressed in purple. Rome (which would have been the capitol for the Romans at the time - in case you couldn't figure that out) is surrounded by 7 mountains, and the royal color of Rome at the time was purple. It's safe to say that John could have easily been referring to Rome.

Second, the actual beast that is mentioned in Revelations was described to have a fatal head wound, but had survived it. Christians at the time believed that Nero was still alive, despite the fact that he had a scribe help him committ suicide. The similarities are obvious - they believed Nero was alive despite a fatal wound and the beast in Revelations was still alive despite inflicting a fatal wound.

Third, we address the numbers 666. I know some studies have come out saying it's 616, not 666, but for the time being we'll just keep it at 666. At the time, most Christians wrote in Hebrew, including John. Hebrew numbers have associations with letters, and oddly enough the association for 666 is Nero. The mark of the beast is 666, which could mean Nero. Considering the similarity with the fatal wound as well, it would be safe to say that John could have easily been referring to what was happening in Rome at the time, and not some future prophecy.

I thought this was interesting, and just want to see what others think of it.

You placed the time frame of that section of Revelation (notice there is no plural ending) at the time of Nero which means that any prophecy associated with it was unfulfilled which then means it is a useless book.

Perhaps you were wrong.

[*Paul*]

I say it is for the past, present and future as it says at the beginning, it's chronology takes us right until the new heavens and the new earth.

[Dunemeister]

Many people treat Revelation as though it were history written in advance and in code. That's a complete misunderstanding of how to understand apocalyptic imagery. Revelation had everything to do with the struggles of first century Christians. To the extent that Christians suffer the same sort of struggles in the 21st century, the book (and its crazy images) have relevance.