Biblical Questions (Bible, King James) (Jesus Christ, ritual, moral, punishment)

[BalanceFx]

Originally Posted by Dunemeister

You may want to start another thread about that or view others where this issue has been raised. As I see it, this particular thread is about how to understand the bible, not whether the bible is in any way special compared to other religious texts.

Right but it was argued that to understand the bible as the single inspired work of the one true god I must read genesis as a poem and understand it is written from several different view points and accept that as gods word it is unquestionably the truth. Thus I must also discount other inspired works of other true gods and not dwell on them less I anger the jealous the god. I must also do my best to spread the word to the heathens that they will burn in hell unless they accept jesus.

I would be better served to see the bible as a series of tales written by many different people with a universal theme but not a universal author.

As in the forums when we begin a story and each poster then adds their section to the story until the thread has the ideas and words of hundreds of authors all writing one story. So as a form of interpretting the bible I see it as an equivalent yet ancient text written along the same lines. Later the story was editted and parts removed and some added in an effort to form a single coherent story.

I were to rephrase my last question above I would also say what gives you the authority to discount other religious works that detail the nature and doctrines of their one true god?

[ChristineES]

Talking about days-- if it were possible for us to live on Jupiter (I know, a bad a example as it has no solid surface but...), a day would be much shorter and a year would be much longer if we did.
A day to us is how long it takes the Earth to make one complete turn. Do you really believe that God would use that to measure His days? I just wonder.

But then, there is also a chance that the creation story was not literal but symbolic.

[Dunemeister]

Originally Posted by BalanceFx

Right but it was argued that to understand the bible as the single inspired work of the one true god I must read genesis as a poem and understand it is written from several different view points and accept that as gods word it is unquestionably the truth. Thus I must also discount other inspired works of other true gods and not dwell on them less I anger the jealous the god. I must also do my best to spread the word to the heathens that they will burn in hell unless they accept jesus.

That may be so, but that's not what happened on this thread. This thread is simply about how best to understand the passage. That can be done whether or not you accept the bible as divinely inspired because either way, there's such a thing as a good and bad interpretation of a text.

I would be better served to see the bible as a series of tales written by many different people with a universal theme but not a universal author.

Possibly. Possibly not. But either way, the question in this thread is how best to interpret the passage in question. That question is independent of whether there's a unified mind behind all the books of the bible.

As in the forums when we begin a story and each poster then adds their section to the story until the thread has the ideas and words of hundreds of authors all writing one story. So as a form of interpretting the bible I see it as an equivalent yet ancient text written along the same lines. Later the story was editted and parts removed and some added in an effort to form a single coherent story.

Neat theory. Any evidence for it? (Again, you'll need to start a new thread.)

I were to rephrase my last question above I would also say what gives you the authority to discount other religious works that detail the nature and doctrines of their one true god?

Start a new thread, and I'd be happy to discuss it with you.

[Sola'lor]

Opps. Double post.

[Sola'lor]

I've actually recently formulated a theory that the days were not consecutive.

Meaning:
Day 1
Day 2
Day 3
Day 4
Day 5
Day 6
Day 7

But rather different phases of Earth's formation. Some overlapping or happening in a different order.

Like this:
Day #------- Day #----------------------------------------------------------------- Day #------------
-----------Day #----------------------- Day #--------------------
-------------------------Day #------------------------------ Day #--------------------

But I haven't really sat down and examined this theory yet. So I'm not sure of it yet.

[3.14]

would make more sence like take for instance evulution theory it makes perfect sence it the days wern't after each other (he like creates water leaves for a while, water slowly takes its natural effect/he creates animals, they slowly evolve/he creates humans, they slowly evolve, has you wondering what he will do on day 8 after hes done "resting")

[BalanceFx]

Originally Posted by Dunemeister

That may be so, but that's not what happened on this thread. This thread is simply about how best to understand the passage. That can be done whether or not you accept the bible as divinely inspired because either way, there's such a thing as a good and bad interpretation of a text.

Possibly. Possibly not. But either way, the question in this thread is how best to interpret the passage in question. That question is independent of whether there's a unified mind behind all the books of the bible.

Neat theory. Any evidence for it? (Again, you'll need to start a new thread.)

Start a new thread, and I'd be happy to discuss it with you.

The question of this thread was originally a few contradictions in the bible and how you can rationalize them.

[Dunemeister]

Originally Posted by BalanceFx

The question of this thread was originally a few contradictions in the bible and how you can rationalize them.

Right. ChristineES, Sola'lor and I in our own ways have tried to do that. What do you have to say about our harmonizations (I wouldn't call them rationalizations)?

[BalanceFx]

Originally Posted by Dunemeister

Right. ChristineES, Sola'lor and I in our own ways have tried to do that. What do you have to say about our harmonizations (I wouldn't call them rationalizations)?

Originally Posted by Q

* The bible says many times that Jesus is Gods only son. How am I gods child then?

Originally Posted by As

By adoption, if you're a believer.
Jesus is God's only begotten son. Meaning God is the literal father of the Physical Christ. God is the Father of all of our spirits.

I believe neither in God nor spirits. In order to accept adoption I first have to accept such an entity exists. Lets say for the sake of argument that some form of God does exist and is responsible for the creation of the entire universe. Having not yet explored the universe as a member of the human race what vanity and ego I must have to assume such a creator cares a whit for my insignificant existance. However lets say I also accept that he watches me and wants me to accept him as a father. He does not feed, provide or clothe me. He ignores me and the old testament description of the entity known as God seems to indicate he is a jealous, insensitive god who is very minupulative. (Job, Asking abraham to sacrifice his son as a show of faith.) On that notion I judge the described god as not Worthy to be my father and someone whom I would never model my life after.

For the second response lets say I accept that Christ both existed and is the father of all spirits and that I accept spirits as something that does exist. In that case its a fairly good explanation. Each of us has a spirit and god created those spirits and somehow when we are born we inherit a spirit for some yet unknown purpose. However I do not believe in Christ, God or Spirits so I personally can't accept that explanation but it is quite an interesting point of view.

Originally Posted by Q

* The bible says god is 100% benevolent... if he created everything where did evil come from?

Originally Posted by As

The bible doesn't really explain the existence of evil. Apologists usually punt to a free decision from a creature, such as a great angel (Lucifer, who became Satan as a result) or a human (Adam). But the bible itself doesn't dwell on evil's origin. Rather, it tells the story of how the Creator is dealing with it.
Evil is a natural condition of opposing God. Since all people have the freedom to choose al are free to choose to obey God or not. It's not a matter of creation but the natural condition of the universe.

Is is stated that the bible does not explain evil but it does say that god is both dealing with the evil and that he created everything and that he is omnibenevolent. This is just a simple logic flaw. If God is 100% good and he created everything then there could be no evil. By the same token if he is omniscient he knew when he created Adam and Eve exactly what would happen and punished them anyways thus leading to the belief he is creul.

Saying that evil is a natural condition that opposes God seems to indicate that god is not all powerful. He created the universe so he would then have to have created such a natural condition which locgically means he created evil.

The best responses I have heard once is, "God has not completed his thought and nothing that is happening right now is real. Once he finishes considering this eternity and the flawwed nature of it he will change his mind and we will simply cease to be. This neither evil nor god since an entity of such power endowed with free will would never make such a distinction."

Originally Posted by Q

* The bible says god is a jealous god... if hes the only god what does he have to be jealous of?

Originally Posted by As

There are plenty of rivals for God's affections. Humans will worship just about any darned thing imaginable, including themselves or figments of their imaginations. So, as a legitimate husband experiences jealousy when his lawfully wedded wife plays the harlot, God gets jealous when humans prostitute themselves to other so-called "gods."
There are many other gods. If I love taking care of my car that can be a god to me. Video games could be a god. Anything we worship or are more dedicated to than God is a god.

This is an interesting insight. We are to repress other pleasures to what degree in our quest to worship god? Not to mention Jealousy is not an admirable quality or trait. It is also hard to believe that being of such incomhensible power would be Jealous of anything I might happen to worship. This also speaks to Vanity and Ego of the human race, two traits that have never served me well. (Repression can also lead to psychotic disorders)

Originally Posted by Q

* The bible ages the earth at 6000 or so years. (I don't need to rebut this... if you seriously believe this then you have issues I personally can't resolve.)

Originally Posted by As

The bible does no such thing. Some bishop, in a classic case of mishandling scripture, concocted a theory according to which the earth came into existence at about 4004 BC. The bible itself doesn't concern itself with the age of the earth. Period.
No it doesn't. Certain interpretations date use the Bible to date the earth at 6000 years. But no where in the Bible does it say 6000 years. I personally believe it took millions of years.

Well atleast here we agree. I'm believe it likely took billions of years. However there is a creationist museum open now in the states that is teaching children that the earth is indeed 6000 years old.

I can response to more of your answers later but that should give you some idea. For the record I believe I have been trying to responsd to your comments all along before we got sidetracked.