Is Baptism Essential for Salvation into Heaven?

[uss_bigd]

Originally Posted by Starfish

For all the non-LDS who do believe that baptism is essential, what do you have for those who never had the opportunity?

God will show mercy to whomever he wants to show mercy, God judges those from the outside and he is the God who so desires all men to be saved.

[uss_bigd]

Originally Posted by Muffled

We do have to define our terms don't we. Obviously Paul is referring to a salvation from God's wrath. That does not automatically save us from God's judgement or from the death that comes from sin.

As for salvation from sin, baptism has no power to deliver me from sin. Granted some people can overcome sin by working hard at it (I did for a while) but it is easier to overcome sin by the grace of God.

Baptism itself (some ritual done with water) has no power in the physical act. A person has to repent sin to be willing to be saved from it. A person who loves his sin does not wish to be saved from it. The repentence precedes the ritual and in my case it precedes what I consider to be my day of salvation. (When I received Jesus as my Lord and Savior)

This is a biblical debate, your opinions does not carry any weight at all.

[Dunemeister]

Originally Posted by uss_bigd

This is a biblical debate, your opinions does not carry any weight at all.

[sarcasm]I for one am glad that uss_bigd is here to patrol this debate and make sure that everyone who disagrees with him and says things in a way he doesn't like is unwelcome. Thanks, uss_bigd![/sarcasm]

[Jeremy Mason]

Originally Posted by Katzpur

Hey, I want to change my answer! Baptism is not required for entrance into Heaven, but it is required for those who wish to receive the fullness of salvation.

I'm confused... if you are in Heaven, you do have the fullness of the glory of Christ. Again, fullness of salvation, if you are saved your saved, right?

I looked up "fullness" in the ECNIV and the only thing that the Scriptures are talking about is God and his fullness. Therefore,

Romans 8:17
17Now if we are children, then we are heirs—heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, if indeed we share in his sufferings in order that we may also share in his glory.

I like this Scripture--it tells me that the (God chosen) Christians get all the rewards/glory and therefore abolishing the notion of "the have(s)" and "the have-not(s)" in Heaven.

[Starfish]

Originally Posted by uss_bigd

God will show mercy to whomever he wants to show mercy, God judges those from the outside and he is the God who so desires all men to be saved.

If I recall correctly (I may be wrong), you agree that baptism is essential. So therefore, it appears that you believe that for everyone who had the opportunity--baptism is essential, it must be done. For those who didn't have the opportunity, IF they'd had the opportunity, they would have been baptized, and that's as good as having done it. I don't agree, but I can understand this. It's certainly easier than what we're doing.

It doesn't seem like such a vast gulf between our two beliefs in this one subject. We both believe that baptism is essential, but we have a way for ALL to be baptized, through proxy.

I think if I wasn't LDS, I would think the task we were undertaking was crazy, impossible, but I would admire the intent.

[Katzpur]

Originally Posted by Jeremy Mason

I'm confused... if you are in Heaven, you do have the fullness of the glory of Christ. Again, fullness of salvation, if you are saved your saved, right?

Not the way I see it. There are degrees of righteousness and faithfulness. Why not degrees of salvation? Jesus Christ said that he would reward all men "according to their works." What do you think He meant by that if not that there would be a greater reward in Heaven for some than for others?

I like this Scripture--it tells me that the (God chosen) Christians get all the rewards/glory and therefore abolishing the notion of "the have(s)" and "the have-not(s)" in Heaven.

Wait. Maybe I'm misreading this. You seem to be saying that you like the idea that God has chosen some to be rewarded and others to be damned. Am I getting this right?

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Originally Posted by Katzpur

Wait. Maybe I'm misreading this. You seem to be saying that you like the idea that God has chosen some to be rewarded and others to be damned. Am I getting this right?

Not sure if that was his intent, but that idea is present in some Protestant denominations, mainly those that arose out of Calvinism.

[Jeremy Mason]

Not the way I see it. There are degrees of righteousness and faithfulness. Why not degrees of salvation? Jesus Christ said that he would reward all men "according to their works." What do you think He meant by that if not that there would be a greater reward in Heaven for some than for others?

Does the blood of Jesus not wash all iniquity away. According to the way I read the Scripture Jesus has all the rewards and if we are co-heirs then we share his rewards--all of them. I think it's apparent how economical differences create tension.

Wait. Maybe I'm misreading this. You seem to be saying that you like the idea that God has chosen some to be rewarded and others to be damned. Am I getting this right?

This is a scary subject for me as well and I'm only explaining what I understand form Scripture. Look at the Parable of the Two Son, Parable of the Tenants, Parable of the Wedding Banquet, Parable of the Ten Virgins, The Sheep and the Goats, The Wise and the Foolish Builders, Parable of the Sower, Parable of the Good Samaritan, Parable of the Rich Fool, Repent or Perish, The Narrow Door. The pattern that I see is very dichotomous.

[Jeremy Mason]

I'm starting another thread "Rewards in Heaven"