Is Baptism Essential for Salvation into Heaven?

[uss_bigd]

fish hunter...


i am waiting for your replies

[dan p]

Context tells me it is about Isreal. This as you know , the biggest divider in the bible. People refuse to recognize that the Gospels are talking only about Isreal. Just take out all of Pauls letters from Romans-philemon, and what do you have ? That right , nothing BUT iSREAL. The reason that were baptism in the Old Testament , was because of Jehovah dwelling among them , and they had baptisms ( or purification rites ) to keep them them clean to approach a holy God. Please notice that didn't question John what his baptism meant, because the new that the Christ would come baptizing. Baptism has nothing to with salvation , eph 2: 8,9 is starters. And look at different modes of baptisms, Matt 28:19--Mark 16:15-18--- Acts 2:38 which a different meaning then the last two mentioned, 1Cor 12:13 , does it mean water here ,? No. Water can never put you into the Body of Christ.

[uu_sage]

Baptism is not necessary for salvation. Instead this sacrament is an initation into a coveneted community with others and with God. Further this signifyies an outer transformation. In infants, or children it is often a pledge for the parents to raise them in the larger Christian tradition, or by teaching, word, and example living out the radical example of Jesus. Even if such a ritual were necessary for salvation the act itself would not be enough.

[Starfish]

Originally Posted by uu_sage

Baptism is not necessary for salvation. Instead this sacrament is an initation into a coveneted community with others and with God. Further this signifyies an outer transformation. In infants, or children it is often a pledge for the parents to raise them in the larger Christian tradition, or by teaching, word, and example living out the radical example of Jesus. Even if such a ritual were necessary for salvation the act itself would not be enough.

Matt. 3: 15 "And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness."

Matt. 28: 19 "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost".

Mark 16: 16 "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved: but he that believeth not shall be damned."

Luke 3: 21 "Now when all the people were baptized, it came to pass, that Jesus also being baptized, and praying, the heaven was opened,"

Luke 7: 30 "But the Pharisees and lawyers rejected the counsel of God against themselves, being not baptized of him."

John 3: 5 "Verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God."

Acts 2: 38 "Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Acts 10: 48 "and he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord."

Of course, baptism alone is not enough. But it is essential.

[tigrers99]

It is true that most Christians have been literally washed via water baptism. However, that is not what saved nor sanctified them. The moment they came to true belief is when they were 'relocated' into the kingdom of God's dear Son (Col.1:13). Their soul or spirit was relocated (via the Holy Spirit) into the cleansing blood of Christ, which is the same as being in His Spiritual body or being in Christ. Neither the Father, Jesus Christ, or the Holy Spirit wait until the moment the person's body is submerged in water in order to implement this process.

The only change to water baptism since John the Baptist was administering it, is the authority of it, or in whose authority it is administered. Since water baptism is called the baptism of repentence unto the remission of sins: John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins. (Mk.1:4)

Also, since Jesus and His immediate disciples were water baptizing at the same time as John the Baptist, if they were claiming that their water baptism was to wash away sins it would have been a lie. Only Christ's blood can wash away sins and that was not to be for another 3 years!


What many Christians do not notice when they are quoting Acts 2:38 is that Peter is commanding the audience to accept that Jesus is the Christ and to acknowledge this by undergoing the 'baptism of repentance unto the remission of sins' in His name. Thus showing that they are 'His' disciples.

[Starfish]

Originally Posted by tigrers99

It is true that most Christians have been literally washed via water baptism. However, that is not what saved nor sanctified them. The moment they came to true belief is when they were 'relocated' into the kingdom of God's dear Son (Col.1:13). Their soul or spirit was relocated (via the Holy Spirit) into the cleansing blood of Christ, which is the same as being in His Spiritual body or being in Christ. Neither the Father, Jesus Christ, or the Holy Spirit wait until the moment the person's body is submerged in water in order to implement this process.

The only change to water baptism since John the Baptist was administering it, is the authority of it, or in whose authority it is administered. Since water baptism is called the baptism of repentence unto the remission of sins: John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins. (Mk.1:4)

Also, since Jesus and His immediate disciples were water baptizing at the same time as John the Baptist, if they were claiming that their water baptism was to wash away sins it would have been a lie. Only Christ's blood can wash away sins and that was not to be for another 3 years!


What many Christians do not notice when they are quoting Acts 2:38 is that Peter is commanding the audience to accept that Jesus is the Christ and to acknowledge this by undergoing the 'baptism of repentance unto the remission of sins' in His name. Thus showing that they are 'His' disciples.

Taking upon ourselves the name of Christ is essential. We do this through the outward, physical ordinance of baptism, then remaining obedient thereafter. It is more than just dunking in water. There must be priesthood authority and the confirmation of the Holy Ghost.
(But that takes us beyond this thread.)
Christ showed how it was to be done, and that it must be done.

[Muffled]

Originally Posted by madhatter85

IMHO, Baptism is a commandment and thus required for "salvation"

Not even Jesus Christ was exempt from being baptised, for he did it to "fulfill all righteousness"

Which is why the neccesity of baptism on behalf of the dead.

Necessity for righteousness is not necessity for salvation. OR are you trying to say that Jesus wasn't saved until He was baptized or that He even needed saving?

[Muffled]

Originally Posted by uss_bigd

saved from sin by grace through faith... from sin...saved from sin.

not saved from judgement, not yet. why?

coz faith without works is dead, and baptism is something you need to do.

We do have to define our terms don't we. Obviously Paul is referring to a salvation from God's wrath. That does not automatically save us from God's judgement or from the death that comes from sin.

As for salvation from sin, baptism has no power to deliver me from sin. Granted some people can overcome sin by working hard at it (I did for a while) but it is easier to overcome sin by the grace of God.

Baptism itself (some ritual done with water) has no power in the physical act. A person has to repent sin to be willing to be saved from it. A person who loves his sin does not wish to be saved from it. The repentence precedes the ritual and in my case it precedes what I consider to be my day of salvation. (When I received Jesus as my Lord and Savior)

[madhatter85]

Originally Posted by Muffled

Necessity for righteousness is not necessity for salvation. OR are you trying to say that Jesus wasn't saved until He was baptized or that He even needed saving?

He did it to fulfill all righteousness, Baptism does not "save" you. It is a covenant that allows you to be saved.

He did it because it is a commandment from God to be baptised, if he had not been baptised he would have sinned because he would not have followed all of the commandments.

commandments are not just "do not, do not, do not" but rather alot of them are "Do"

[Starfish]

For all the non-LDS who do believe that baptism is essential, what do you have for those who never had the opportunity?