Is Baptism Essential for Salvation into Heaven?

[Starfish]

Originally Posted by Katzpur

Not so. The early saints at Corinth practiced proxy baptism on behalf of their deceased ancestors. The Latter-day Saints today do so as well. I don't see how the scriptures could possibly be more clear on this. Baptism is essential to salvation. (We could probably elaborate on exactly what is meant by "salvation," but that would be digressing somewhat.) When Christians who deny that baptism is essential try to argue their point, it's clear to me that they are simply ignoring what the Bible has to say on the subject and are using your rationale to justify their beliefs. I know you're not a Christian, by the way, but your argument is a common one among Christians. They simply cannot imagine how a loving, just God could possibly condemn billions to an eternity in Hell because they were born in the wrong place or at the wrong time. I can appreciate their reasoning. Of course it doesn't make sense that God would do that, but God doesn't need us to find loopholes in His laws in order to continue to believe that He is fair and equitable with all of His children. Furthermore, He doesn't need to turn a blind eye to the fact that not all had the opportunity to be baptized during their mortality. He has provided a way for all to receive this essential ordinance, thereby proving Himself to be both merciful and just.

Love this.

Originally Posted by Katzpur

Hey, I want to change my answer! Baptism is not required for entrance into Heaven, but it is required for those who wish to receive the fullness of salvation.

Yes. And for simplification, I was referring to the fullness of salvation in the OP. The highest reward attainable no matter how it's defined. For some that simply means heaven. For others, it means the highest heaven.

Baptism is essential. The Bible is quite clear on it.

[Katzpur]

Originally Posted by Starfish

And for simplification, I was referring to the fullness of salvation in the OP. The highest reward attainable no matter how it's defined. For some that simply means heaven. For others, it means the highest heaven.

The crazy thing is that most people who believe in Heaven at all, don't see any heavenly reward as being higher than another. The idea of a "highest heaven" is entirely foreign to them. It's either be saved or be damned. (Makes you appreciate your testimony, huh?)

[Starfish]

Originally Posted by Katzpur

The crazy thing is that most people who believe in Heaven at all, don't see any heavenly reward as being higher than another. The idea of a "highest heaven" is entirely foreign to them. It's either be saved or be damned. (Makes you appreciate your testimony, huh?)

I appreciate it more and more all the time.

[Muffled]

Originally Posted by Starfish

Love this.

Yes. And for simplification, I was referring to the fullness of salvation in the OP. The highest reward attainable no matter how it's defined. For some that simply means heaven. For others, it means the highest heaven.

Baptism is essential. The Bible is quite clear on it.

There is no such thing as partial salvation. If a man is in a fire and only half his body is saved from burning he may die just the same.

I know rewards are Biblical but I never could groove on them for motivation. I find myself motivated by the Love of Christ and let the rewards fall where they may.

You are not really in Heaven (Paradise) if you aren't in the highest heaven.

I find no passage that proves this assertion. I do find Eph 2:8 that says that we are saved by grace through faith, and baptism (not of works so no man can boast) isn't even mentioned.

[Starfish]

Originally Posted by Muffled

There is no such thing as partial salvation. If a man is in a fire and only half his body is saved from burning he may die just the same.

I know rewards are Biblical but I never could groove on them for motivation. I find myself motivated by the Love of Christ and let the rewards fall where they may.

You are not really in Heaven (Paradise) if you aren't in the highest heaven.

I find no passage that proves this assertion. I do find Eph 2:8 that says that we are saved by grace through faith, and baptism (not of works so no man can boast) isn't even mentioned.

The point of this thread isn't to define heaven. So I left heaven to however you define it. The question is do you need to be baptized to get there?
There are several passages in the Bible. Go to page 2, post 12 of this thread.

[madhatter85]

IMHO, Baptism is a commandment and thus required for "salvation"

Not even Jesus Christ was exempt from being baptised, for he did it to "fulfill all righteousness"

Which is why the neccesity of baptism on behalf of the dead.

[uss_bigd]

Originally Posted by Muffled

There is no such thing as partial salvation. If a man is in a fire and only half his body is saved from burning he may die just the same.

I know rewards are Biblical but I never could groove on them for motivation. I find myself motivated by the Love of Christ and let the rewards fall where they may.

You are not really in Heaven (Paradise) if you aren't in the highest heaven.

I find no passage that proves this assertion. I do find Eph 2:8 that says that we are saved by grace through faith, and baptism (not of works so no man can boast) isn't even mentioned.

saved from sin by grace through faith... from sin...saved from sin.

not saved from judgement, not yet. why?

coz faith without works is dead, and baptism is something you need to do.

[Starfish]

Originally Posted by uss_bigd

saved from sin by grace through faith... from sin...saved from sin.

not saved from judgement, not yet. why?

coz faith without works is dead, and baptism is something you need to do.

We agree! Why don't many of the Christian community believe this? How can one Christian church believe that baptism is essential, and another not, yet they both accept each other as Biblical?
Also, how interesting that you believe James. Most seem to ignore it. I never know, from one Christian to another, what they're going to say. Please, I'm not criticizing; it's just so confusing to me, what many Christians believe.

[uss_bigd]

Originally Posted by Starfish

We agree! Why don't many of the Christian community believe this? How can one Christian church believe that baptism is essential, and another not, yet they both accept each other as Biblical?
Also, how interesting that you believe James. Most seem to ignore it. I never know, from one Christian to another, what they're going to say. Please, I'm not criticizing; it's just so confusing to me, what many Christians believe.

you are not criticizing, you just know right from wrong, biblically speaking. you just have to cleave to it...

I am glad we agreed on someting ...

[Starfish]

Originally Posted by uss_bigd

you are not criticizing, you just know right from wrong, biblically speaking. you just have to cleave to it...

I am glad we agreed on someting ...

So how do you account for the diversity of beliefs? I am not trying to entrap you in a debate here--I would really like to know. I was truly surprised to see you quote James. It's such a rarity.

I have never known anything more confusing that Christians. You can't assume anything. You never know what the next one will say. As soon as I hear a Christian belief, then repeat it to another, they get offended because they don't believe that. What's a person to think? It's like walking on eggshells.

One of my purposes for being here in RF is to understand other religions better. I really am trying. But I'm afraid I'm more confused than ever.

Is it just me, or does it bother you also? Thanks.