contradictions in the bible??? (Jesus, moral, punishment, Moses, Earth)

[Autodidact]

Originally Posted by 2 Timothy 2:15

well autodidact it is possible that neither one is correct...there are about a billion christians in the world and most if not all of them contradict each other. This means that there must be about a billion different jesus all informed by about a billion different spirits. The entire world must see something wrong with christians by now. The old church under the original apostles didn't have all of this dissension and if they did disagree they discussed it and came to one understanding. Oh but now you have christians spread out amongst 100 religions. Why don't people just stop trying to be christians and follow the jewish jesus

Oh certainly. They can both be wrong. They just can't both be right.

[crystalonyx]

Originally Posted by Autodidact

My question is not complicated, and has not yet been answered, or rather has been answered in two contradictory ways. It is this: If two Christians, both informed by the Spirit, come to two opposite contradictory conclusions about what part of the Bible to believe, are they both right?

.

This is an extremely common situation in Christianity, which is why so many denominations and church splits have happened.

Of course, from my viewpoint, they are all wrong.

[sojourner]

The old church under the original apostles didn't have all of this dissension and if they did disagree they discussed it and came to one understanding. Oh but now you have christians spread out amongst 100 religions. Why don't people just stop trying to be christians and follow the jewish jesus

Yes, there was lots of dissention. Read the NT sometime and see. If they all "came to one understanding," then why do we have the Ethiopian Church with a huge canon of scripture, the Orthodox with another, the Roman Catholics with another, the Anglicans with another? If they all "came to one understanding," why do we have four different gospels? (And several that are not canonical, that are different from the canonicals? You're dreaming if you think that the Church has ever "agreed" on much of anything. The best examples of agreement are the Orthodox and Roman branches, and I'd be willing to bet you don't think they're right.

[2 Timothy 2:15]

Originally Posted by sojourner

Yes, there was lots of dissention. Read the NT sometime and see. If they all "came to one understanding," then why do we have the Ethiopian Church with a huge canon of scripture, the Orthodox with another, the Roman Catholics with another, the Anglicans with another? If they all "came to one understanding," why do we have four different gospels? (And several that are not canonical, that are different from the canonicals? You're dreaming if you think that the Church has ever "agreed" on much of anything. The best examples of agreement are the Orthodox and Roman branches, and I'd be willing to bet you don't think they're right.

I know there was dissension, but I bet there's more now than there was under the original 12 apostles. The arguing and disagreements among different religions don't get resolved and why do you think that is? It is because those who came after the apostles didn't stick to the apostle's doctrine. Everybody today gets these divine revelations from God himself which are never in accordance with the apostle's doctrine. Every disagreement I recall reading about in the NT was resolved ( Acts 11 , Acts 15) just to name a couple. But keep in mind I said the original apostles not the apostolic fathers or anybody after them even though under the apostolic fathers the church was pretty much kept in tact. Paul did say in Acts 20:29 For I know this that "after" my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you not sparing the flock.

[Autodidact]

Originally Posted by 2 Timothy 2:15

I know there was dissension, but I bet there's more now than there was under the original 12 apostles. The arguing and disagreements among different religions don't get resolved and why do you think that is? It is because those who came after the apostles didn't stick to the apostle's doctrine. Everybody today gets these divine revelations from God himself which are never in accordance with the apostle's doctrine. Every disagreement I recall reading about in the NT was resolved ( Acts 11 , Acts 15) just to name a couple. But keep in mind I said the original apostles not the apostolic fathers or anybody after them even though under the apostolic fathers the church was pretty much kept in tact. Paul did say in Acts 20:29 For I know this that "after" my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you not sparing the flock.

Have you read much about the early history of the Christian Church, say from 100 C.E. to 600 C.E. or so?

[2 Timothy 2:15]

Originally Posted by Autodidact

Have you read much about the early history of the Christian Church, say from 100 C.E. to 600 C.E. or so?

YES SIR/MA'AM I HAVE READ A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THE CHURCHES HISTORY . I'M NOT A SCHOLAR ON THE MATTER, BUT I AM FAMILIAR WITH SOME OF IT.

I'VE ALREADY MENTIONED THE APOSTOLIC FATHERS WHICH WERE IN EXISTENCE FROM ABOUT 100 TO 200 IN WHICH TIME AROSE GNOSTICISM AND MONTANISM'S (DOCTRINAL DISPUTE). OUT OF THIS DISPUTE CAME THE APOSTLE'S CREED AND THE CANON OF THE NEW TESTAMENT ALSO RECOGNIZED AS THE GLUE WHICH HELD THE CHURCHES TOGETHER. ANNNND AROUND 300 CAME GOOD OLE MITHRA WORSHIPING CONSTANTINE WHO DEFEATED MAXENTIUS BY WHAT HE BELIEVED WAS SIGN FROM God. THEN HIS GREAT CONVERSION TO CHRISTIANITY AND THE ISSUING OF THE "EDICT OF MILAN" WHICH PRETTY MUCH OPENED THE DOOR FOR ANYBODY TO BE A CHRISTIAN WITHOUT REALLY UNDERSTANDING DOCTRINE (AS IS TODAY WHICH IS WHY I'M NOT A CHRISTIAN) JUST TO BUMP THEIR STATUS UP IN SOCIETY. THEN A WHILE LATER THERE AROSE A FEW COUNCILS (TO TRY AND UNDERSTAND THE PERSON OF CHRIST) AND A FEW CREEDS (DECIDING THE PERSON OF CHRIST) A FEW REVELATIONS AND SO ON.

SO YES I KNOW A LITTLE NOT MUCH BUT I'M STILL STUDYING HENCE THE NAME I CHOSE (2 TIMOTHY 2:15) BUT WHAT IS YOUR POINT? DID I SAY SOMETHING THAT DIDN'T HAPPEN IN THE PREVIOUS POST?

[Autodidact]

Originally Posted by 2 Timothy 2:15

YES SIR/MA'AM I HAVE READ A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THE CHURCHES HISTORY . I'M NOT A SCHOLAR ON THE MATTER, BUT I AM FAMILIAR WITH SOME OF IT.

I'VE ALREADY MENTIONED THE APOSTOLIC FATHERS WHICH WERE IN EXISTENCE FROM ABOUT 100 TO 200 IN WHICH TIME AROSE GNOSTICISM AND MONTANISM'S (DOCTRINAL DISPUTE). OUT OF THIS DISPUTE CAME THE APOSTLE'S CREED AND THE CANON OF THE NEW TESTAMENT ALSO RECOGNIZED AS THE GLUE WHICH HELD THE CHURCHES TOGETHER. ANNNND AROUND 300 CAME GOOD OLE MITHRA WORSHIPING CONSTANTINE WHO DEFEATED MAXENTIUS BY WHAT HE BELIEVED WAS SIGN FROM God. THEN HIS GREAT CONVERSION TO CHRISTIANITY AND THE ISSUING OF THE "EDICT OF MILAN" WHICH PRETTY MUCH OPENED THE DOOR FOR ANYBODY TO BE A CHRISTIAN WITHOUT REALLY UNDERSTANDING DOCTRINE (AS IS TODAY WHICH IS WHY I'M NOT A CHRISTIAN) JUST TO BUMP THEIR STATUS UP IN SOCIETY. THEN A WHILE LATER THERE AROSE A FEW COUNCILS (TO TRY AND UNDERSTAND THE PERSON OF CHRIST) AND A FEW CREEDS (DECIDING THE PERSON OF CHRIST) A FEW REVELATIONS AND SO ON.

SO YES I KNOW A LITTLE NOT MUCH BUT I'M STILL STUDYING HENCE THE NAME I CHOSE (2 TIMOTHY 2:15) BUT WHAT IS YOUR POINT? DID I SAY SOMETHING THAT DIDN'T HAPPEN IN THE PREVIOUS POST?

My understanding is that the early years of the Christian Church were marked by division and strife, particularly between the doctrine that eventually prevailed and became orthodoxy, and those doctrines we now regard as heresy, especially Arianism, Ebionites, Gnosticism, Montanism and Marcionism. Leaders were expelled, banished, persecuted and sometimes killed. Evantually Paulist Christianity prevailed, and the religion practiced by most Christians today is Paulist Christianity.

[2 Timothy 2:15]

Originally Posted by Autodidact

My understanding is that the early years of the Christian Church were marked by division and strife, particularly between the doctrine that eventually prevailed and became orthodoxy, and those doctrines we now regard as heresy, especially Arianism, Ebionites, Gnosticism, Montanism and Marcionism. Leaders were expelled, banished, persecuted and sometimes killed. Evantually Paulist Christianity prevailed, and the religion practiced by most Christians today is Paulist Christianity.

You got me on that one i've never heard of Paulist Christianity but still what is your point in all this ... I was simply saying that when the church was under the original 12 apostles (while they were alive) the dissension was resolved unlike today. You take any 2 of those Paulist Christians that attend different church buildings and ask a question about doctrine... I bet they won't come to an agreement based on scripture because they all divide the scripture differently yet they serve the same Jesus

[gnostic]

Originally Posted by 2 Timothy 2:15

You got me on that one i've never heard of Paulist Christianity but still what is your point in all this ... I was simply saying that when the church was under the original 12 apostles (while they were alive) the dissension was resolved unlike today. You take any 2 of those Paulist Christians that attend different church buildings and ask a question about doctrine... I bet they won't come to an agreement based on scripture because they all divide the scripture differently yet they serve the same Jesus

The "Apostolic Fathers" that you have mentioned, are the leaders of the Pauline Christians. The Pauline Christians are the "mainstream" orthodox Christians that which Constantine had converted, and which later divided into East and West.