Are FLDS "Mormons" really Mormons? (Jesus Christ, Latter-Day Saints, blood)

[jonny]

It's a pretty stupid argument to be making, but what can you expect. I haven't heard anyone here say that they can't call themselves whatever the hell they want. All anyone has said is that the FLDS and the LDS are not the same church.

When Mormons say they're Christians, they're not saying they are Catholics, Lutherans, Baptists, Methodists, or Born-again Bible Thumpers. All they are saying is that they believe that salvation comes through Christ.

Kapish?

[Bishka]

Originally Posted by Ratiocinative

In case nobody figured it out yet, I was drawing a parallel to the fact that Mormons get upset when they're not called Christian, yet they deny FLDS to be Mormons even though FLDS beliefs are much, much more similar to LDS beliefs than Christian beliefs are.

Just throwing that out there.

Here is how I see it.

Christianity.

One whole big umbrella. It encompasses Catholicism, Lutherans, Baptists, Methodists, Baptists, Mormons, FLDS, etc.

Mormons.

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.


Does that make any more sense?

[jonny]

Originally Posted by cardero

Which organization closely practices Mormonism to the way that Joseph Smith and the early Mormons intended?

I don't think Joseph Smith ever intended for Mormons to isolate themselves behind walls and hide from the world. In fact, he wanted just the opposite.

The FLDS have emphasized polygamy to the point where it's ridiculous. When Joseph Smith was alive, polygamy was hardly even a well-known practice among members of the LDS church, much less the CENTRAL doctrine of the church.

Warren Jeffs is exactly what Joseph Smith warned people that they would become if they let their "power" go to their head. He practically prophesied Warren Jeffs in D&C 121:

39 We have learned by sad experience that it is the nature and disposition of almost all men, as soon as they get a little authority, as they suppose, they will immediately begin to exercise unrighteous dominion.
40 Hence many are called, but few are chosen.
41 No power or influence can or ought to be maintained by virtue of the priesthood...

[Starfish]

Originally Posted by Ratiocinative

In case nobody figured it out yet, I was drawing a parallel to the fact that Mormons get upset when they're not called Christian, yet they deny FLDS to be Mormons even though FLDS beliefs are much, much more similar to LDS beliefs than Christian beliefs are.

Just throwing that out there.

I've already thought of that and I agree with you. Mainstream Christians don't want LDS mixed in with mainstream Christians, and LDS don't want the FLDS, RLDS, etc. mixed in with the LDS.

(I heard that the RLDS now call themselves the Community of Christ so as to not be confused with the LDS.)

But the LDS will continue to think of themselves as Christians because they follow Christ. And the LDS breakoffs will continue to use the name Mormon as long as they use the Book of Mormon.

I need a vacation.

[jonny]

Originally Posted by Bishka

Here is how I see it.

Christianity.

One whole big umbrella. It encompasses Catholicism, Lutherans, Baptists, Methodists, Baptists, Mormons, FLDS, etc.

Mormons.

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.


Does that make any more sense?

The FLDS don't want to be associated with the LDS anyway. We're just as apostate as the next church. That's why the argument that Ratiocinative is trying to make is so ridiculous.

[Katzpur]

Originally Posted by cardero

Which organization closely practices Mormonism to the way that Joseph Smith and the early Mormons intended?

Well, one of the fundamentals of Mormonism is the belief in continued revelation. Most of these fundamentalist groups insist that once the initial revelation had been given authorizing limited polygamy among the Latter-day Saints, it was a practice that was to remain in effect forever. They rejected the revelation that came to a man their ancestors believed to have had the authority to speak on behalf of God in saying that the practice of polygamy should come to an end. Even though the revelation now known as "the Manifesto" did not come through Joseph Smith, Joseph Smith would have sustained the man through whom it did come, as do all members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints today. If a group of people reject the words of the Prophet they have previously sustained as holding the keys of authority, they are apostate, not the Prophet.

Another one of our fundamental beliefs is that we believe in obeying, honoring and sustaining the laws of the land in which we live. That's one of our Articles of Faith, which is about as close to a creed as you will find in Mormonism. When the Mormon pioneers were practicing polygamy in what is now Utah, they were outside of the United States. Furthermore, there were no laws against polygamy back then. Joseph Smith would have condemned the utter disregard for the laws of the land that characterize members of the FLDS Church today.

[jonny]

Originally Posted by Ratiocinative

For LDS in particular, are FLDS considered Mormons also? I'm curious, since I not sure of what the differences are other than FLDS still practice polygamy I think.

I know practically nothing about the FLDS other than what I've seen on the news, but here are a few of the differences I can think of off the top of my head:

• LDS don't dress in pioneer costumes.
• LDS don't practice polygamy.
• LDS don't marry and have sex with underage girls.
• LDS don't let their bishop reassign children and wives.
• LDS wear the color red.
• LDS don't build walls around their cities and hide in the desert.
• The LDS Church is governed by a presidency and 12 apostles, not one man.
• Women in the LDS church have much more freedom than in the FLDS

I'm sure I'll be able to come up with some more if I think about it for a bit.

[Ratiocinative]

Originally Posted by jonny

The FLDS don't want to be associated with the LDS anyway. We're just as apostate as the next church. That's why the argument that Ratiocinative is trying to make is so ridiculous.

Joseph Smith founded Mormonism on the basis that every other religion is wrong, so what you just said supports what I said.

[Katzpur]

Originally Posted by Ratiocinative

Joseph Smith founded Mormonism on the basis that every other religion is wrong, so what you just said supports what I said.

So, which religion is "right," Ratio?