God is omnipresent and Omniscient, is concept biblical??? (Jesus, ritual)

[uss_bigd]

Originally Posted by Mister Emu

Yes we are... I was just pointing out one verse that supported God being on earth...

but not everywhere on earth....

The definition is highly relevant.

how? we can't possibly explain the God does not dwell in temples made by hands to mean otherwise....

The verse I quoted is binding "God fills the earth", He simply is there.

The verse does not say "fill it with himself" which is not possible, because he can't be in temples made by human hands.

[Mister Emu]

how? we can't possibly explain the God does not dwell in temples made by hands to mean otherwise....

But what does dwell mean? That is the important question... Dwell cannot mean "stays even for a time" because we know "where ever two or more gather in my name I am there", and if Dwell means "stays independant of other variables" then it does not preclude God permanently residing there...

The verse does not say "fill it with himself" which is not possible, because he can't be in temples made by human hands.

I've already shown you that He can.

God must be everywhere because He fills the earth.

[uss_bigd]

Originally Posted by Mister Emu

But what does dwell mean? That is the important question... Dwell cannot mean "stays even for a time" because we know "where ever two or more gather in my name I am there", and if Dwell means "stays independant of other variables" then it does not preclude God permanently residing there...

Then God should permanently reside inside a temple to be everywhere. that will then contradict the verse that God does not dwell on temples...

I've already shown you that He can.

He can, yes during a gathering, but he must remain there to be everywhere.
if he remains there it will contradict the verse God does not dwell in temples...

Then the logical conclusion is, God can be in temples if there is a gathering, but he does not remain there. hence he is not everywhere.

God must be everywhere because He fills the earth.

The verse did not say with himself. he is not on temples ....

[Mister Emu]

if he remains there it will contradict the verse God does not dwell in temples...

If God is not in the temples it contradicts God filling the earth.

The verse did not say with himself. he is not on temples

The verse says "God fills the earth". God fills the earth, not an attribute, but God. The verse says that. He is in temples.

[uss_bigd]

Originally Posted by Mister Emu

If God is not in the temples it contradicts God filling the earth.

Thats the point they can't contradict... God fills earth with his grace, not by himself. that will make it consistent with the verse that states the following:

" God does not dwell in temples...."
" our fahter thou art in heaven"
" the lords eyes are every where " among others

Originally Posted by Mister Emu

The verse says "God fills the earth". God fills the earth, not an attribute, but God. The verse says that. He is in temples.

again sir, he did not say with him self and does not dwell in temples is explicit...to dwell does not require a determinng variable like a gathering...

tell you what sir, why don't you give me a definition of dwell that will turn around the meaning of the " God does not dwell in temple" verse. see? we can't possibly find a definition of the the word the dwell to mean that God dwells in temples.

[Mister Emu]

Thats the point they can't contradict...

That is my point too, only I go about it the opposite way, instead of saying "Since God does not dwell in temples, then 'God fills the earth' must not mean that literally", I say "Since God fills the earth, 'God does not dwell in temples' must not mean He isn't there all the time".

again sir, he did not say with him self and does not dwell in temples is explicit...

If there is no presumption of personage in "God fills the earth"(which is just as explicit as "God does not dwell in temples") then I fail to see how you presume it in favor of your arguement.

tell you what sir, why don't you give me a definition of dwell

to dwell does not require a determinng variable like a gathering...

This definition that you give is fine for my purposes. Dwell means permanently staying without requiring a determining variable. Is that ok for you?

[uss_bigd]

Originally Posted by Mister Emu

This definition that you give is fine for my purposes. Dwell means permanently staying without requiring a determining variable. Is that ok for you?

yes, that will work

[Mister Emu]

yes, that will work

Ok

Given that definition, how could we ever determine that God is for sure not somewhere permanently? We don't, and can't, know all the variables that could be involved.

[uss_bigd]

Originally Posted by Mister Emu

Ok

Given that definition, how could we ever determine that God is for sure not somewhere permanently? We don't, and can't, know all the variables that could be involved.

Then you cannot determine that he is everywhere.

but the bible explicitly he is in heaven, and he does not stay pemanently in temples made by human hands.

and the verse in psalms does not say fill by himself sir.

[Mister Emu]

Then you cannot determine that he is everywhere.

Determining that it cannot be determined that He is not somewhere is the first step my friend

but the bible explicitly he is in heaven

Yes, it does

and he does not stay pemanently in temples made by human hands.

By our mutually agreed upon definition of dwell, we have determined that He does not stay permanently in temples without regard to variable.

and the verse in psalms does not say fill by himself sir.

The verse is not in psalms friend, but Jeremiah

Also I might add, that I have never heard such a thing said before in my life. The water fills my mouth with itself. The popcorn fills the room with itself. It is always understood(in my experience) that unless an attribute is explicit, the "self" is implied. The water fills my mouth. The refreshing taste of the water fills my mouth. The popcorn fills the room. The appetizing smell of the popcorn fills the room.