God is omnipresent and Omniscient, is concept biblical??? (Jesus, ritual)

[Jeremy Mason]

Originally Posted by crystalonyx

Isn't it odd that they would needed Judas anyway, since the supposed Jesus was a well-known preacher around Jerusalem, he should have been reconizable on sight. This story was another one made up merely to fulfill prophecy.

There were many so-called messiahs before, during and after Jesus. The confusion as to who Jesus actually was is understandable, plus they wanted to make sure it was Him. (Remember they didn't want Jesus to magically walk out of his tomb, his correct identity was very important.)

[Jeremy Mason]

Originally Posted by gnostic

Looking at the gospels as an example, from what I can gather, someone had to betray Jesus in order for Jesus' death and resurrection to happen.

If it was Judas Iscariot was destined to be the betrayer from the moment of birth, then he could not possibly alter his position of being the betrayer. That being the case, then wouldn't it mean that Judas had no free will in the matter?

And if I wrong then please correct me, because I am only recalling the event from memory, because I don't have bible with me. When Jesus pass the bit of food to Judas to reveal who would betray him, didn't a spirit entered into Judas and caused his action that led to Jesus' arrest?

If this so, then the action is not really Judas, is it not? The spirit guided Judas to accept the blood money, that led to Judas kissing Jesus to show the guards who to arrest. Again, that would mean Judas had no free will.

So think of it this way. If our every-day actions were guided by spirits, then wouldn't that mean none of us have free will?

Judas stole money, betrayed Jesus and your saying the Devil made him do it? Judas was smart despite his apparent lack of judgment, he wasn't a puppet. Do you feel we have no free will?

[gnostic]

Originally Posted by jeremy mason

Judas stole money, betrayed Jesus and your saying the Devil made him do it? Judas was smart despite his apparent lack of judgment, he wasn't a puppet. Do you feel we have no free will?

Sorry, but I don't think you have read my reply properly.

Did any spirit enter Judas in the Last Supper, when Jesus dip a food and pass it to Judas?

I don't remember the Last Supper that well. If no spirit entered into Judas at that moment, then he betray out of his own free will and greed. But if a spirit was involved, then he had no choice in the matter and therefore no free will.

Which one is it?

This why I ask someone to correct me if I recorded the Last Supper wrong:

Originally Posted by gnostic

And if I wrong then please correct me, because I am only recalling the event from memory, because I don't have bible with me. When Jesus pass the bit of food to Judas to reveal who would betray him, didn't a spirit entered into Judas and caused his action that led to Jesus' arrest?

If I recall it wrong, then I am sorry.

If I my memory serves me right then I could possibly take back my apologies.

I still haven't look up about the Last Supper.

Am I remembering it wrong? Do you remember what happened?

[uss_bigd]

Originally Posted by Mister Emu

I know this to not be the case, as He has been there everytime I go to Church...

I accept your opinion sir, but your opinion doesn't mean it makes it biblical

Biblically, this is not the case, as Biblically God knows everything we do.

I cited the verse where in the actions of the people at tophet never came to God's mind, in another verse, he said he nwver thought about. could you kindly explain why it would he thought about it?


He was not predestined to betray, he chose to do so...

biblical proof?

In John... but before the devil enters into Judas, Judas has already made up his mind to betray Jesus.

which verse are you referring to?

replies in pink sir, thanks!

[Heneni]

Ok, so has this thread turned into a discussion of Judas?

If Judas had no choice in the matter, and satan you could say litterly possessed Judas, and got him to do all the things he did afterwards, then wouldnt satan be a bit daft?

Satan knew what would be the result of Jesus's crucifixtion. And so why would the devil help Judas to get himself defeated? Hm.....Perhaps we need to re-think some things here.

The devil knew since Genesis that Jesus was coming to 'get' him. All through the bible you can tell that he must have been constantly reminded about it.

Herod had all those babies killed because satan inspired him to do it, so that this jesus would not make it till his third birthday.

And now we say satan entered judas and helped jesus get killed, when he knew that it would mean the fullfillment of an age old prophecy about him biting the dust???

Judas was a mean little bugger. And satan entered him to stop him from doing the most stupid thing ever! To get Satan defeated. This is why Satan killed Judas, he had him commit suicide, in the hope that this would sway the opinion of others, and not get Jesus killed. But then, the heart of Judas, was something that Satan could not change for the good, the only thing he could do was get him killed in the hope that they would not kill Jesus.

When Jesus told Judas to do what he had to do quickly he meant that whatever was in Juda's heart must be done quickly since now that satan had entered him, he would be inclined to be torn between two lovers so to speak. But the evil in Judas's heart was enough to get done what was in his own heart to do, and it was nasty enough not even for satan to stop.

Satan ironically made his bed in Judas's heart and had to lie in it now.

Love
heneni

[logician]

Originally Posted by Jeremy Mason

There were many so-called messiahs before, during and after Jesus. The confusion as to who Jesus actually was is understandable, plus they wanted to make sure it was Him. (Remember they didn't want Jesus to magically walk out of his tomb, his correct identity was very important.)

THe problem is, there is no evidence a Jesus remotely fitting the fictitious stories of the NT ever existed, certianly, no "miracle" worker ever existed, other than in the minds of imaginative religious writers.

[Mister Emu]

Originally Posted by Gnostic

If I recall it wrong, then I am sorry.

You do not recall it wrong, as I said in post #29 it is found in John 13:27. But before this happens it is already in his(Judas's) heart to betray(John 13:2).

Originally Posted by USS_BigD

I accept your opinion sir, but your opinion doesn't mean it makes it biblical

Actually my belief is Biblical Mat. 18:20

biblical proof?

None explicit. Any to the opposite?

[uss_bigd]

Originally Posted by Mister Emu

Actually my belief is Biblical Mat. 18:20

MAt 18:20

"For where two or three come together in my name, there am I with them."

This does not mean God dwells in temples. it means he is there if Chrsitian come together.

sir, Does not dwell means does not dwell. I am not the one you are rejecting here.