LDS beliefs and the Bible

[Orontes]

Originally Posted by Fish-Hunter

Well, there are about 25 Mormons debating two Christians. I am trying to respond to all Mormons the best that I can. I would like to discuss everything that God will be glorified in His truth. My motive is that we would all come to know God as our Heavenly Father through the One True Jesus Christ....to the praise of His glorious grace. What is your motive on this thread?

My motive has been to respond to specific issues you have brought forward or that informed your position. This has included:

1) Determinism
2) The Apostasy
2) Sola Scriptura

In each instance, you have ceded the point or become silent. I have no issue with your motive. As subjects of discussion: wanting to "discuss everything" is a tad broad. I suggest you pick one specific point. This way you, and the various Mormons you engage, can focus and an actual dialogue might be possible instead of the random scripture citations that seem rather disconnected.

Note: "Historical Biblical Christian" as a label would disqualify yourself, since you are neither Roman Catholic nor Eastern Orthodox nor Oriental Orthodox. I think the term that better indicates your posture is Evangelical.

[Fish-Hunter]

Originally Posted by Orontes

My motive has been to respond to specific issues you have brought forward or that informed your position. This has included:

1) Determinism
2) The Apostasy
2) Sola Scriptura

In each instance, you have ceded the point or become silent. I have no issue with your motive. As subjects of discussion: wanting to "discuss everything" is a tad broad. I suggest you pick one specific point. This way you, and the various Mormons you engage, can focus and an actual dialogue might be possible instead of the random scripture citations that seem rather disconnected.

Note: "Historical Biblical Christian" as a label would disqualify yourself, since you are neither Roman Catholic nor Eastern Orthodox nor Oriental Orthodox. I think the term that better indicates your posture is Evangelical.

I have requested other historical biblical Christians to help answer your specific questions that you have. I think everyone is limited on time. I hope other Evangelical Christians will participate in the very near future. Some already confirmed that they will be dropping in our thread when time allows. It is quite overwhelming because there are so many LDS participating, and very few Evangelicals on this site. I would like to continue to discuss things when time permits.

[Katzpur]

Originally Posted by Fish-Hunter

Some already confirmed that they will be dropping in our thread when time allows. It is quite overwhelming because there are so many LDS participating, and very few Evangelicals on this site.

Like you weren't doing a whole lot better back when it was just the two of us on that other thread. I wasn't getting anywhere with you because you refused to listen to anything I had to say and wouldn't answer my questions. The problem may appear to be compounded on this thread, but the reason hasn't changed any.

[Fish-Hunter]

Let's please stick to this one topic: The Gospel of God according to the Apostle Paul

What is this gospel that the Apostle Paul seems to be obsessed with as describe below.

I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God for the salvation of everyone who believes. For in the gospel a righteousness from God is revealed, a righteousness that is by faith from first to last, just as it is written: "The righteous will live by faith." Rom 1:16-17

What is the gospel of God according to the Apostle Paul?

[FFH]

Originally Posted by Fish-Hunter

The Epstile of James is in complete harmony with the Epistles of Paul. But you need both to understand the truth. Remember, Paul wrote about 1/2 of the New Testament, and James wrote one Epistle.

For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do. - Ephesians 2:8-9 - The Apostle Paul from the Holy Bible

James 2: 20, 26
20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

[Fish-Hunter]

Originally Posted by Fish-Hunter

Let's please stick to this one topic: The Gospel of God according to the Apostle Paul

What is this gospel that the Apostle Paul seems to be obsessed with as describe below.

I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God for the salvation of everyone who believes. For in the gospel a righteousness from God is revealed, a righteousness that is by faith from first to last, just as it is written: "The righteous will live by faith." Rom 1:16-17

What is the gospel of God according to the Apostle Paul?

Here is what I believe the Apostle Paul is speaking about. It is an alien righteousness found outside ourselves that comes from God. It is a sufficient and perfect righteousness received through faith alone.

Romans 10
Brothers, my heart's desire and prayer to God for the Israelites is that they may be saved. For I can testify about them that they are zealous for God, but their zeal is not based on knowledge. Since they did not know the righteousness that comes from God and sought to establish their own, they did not submit to God's righteousness. Christ is the end of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes.

I am looking forward to all LDS Christian answers regarding what the Apostle Paul is speaking about in regards to the gospel of God.

[Fish-Hunter]

Originally Posted by FFH

James 2: 20, 26
20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

I love the Epistle of James. It does need to be reconciled with the 13 or 14 Epistles of Paul. There is an apparent contradiction on a quick read, but both are true when understood in the light of the gospel of grace according to the Holy Bible. Before we get to James, let's please stick to the one topic that I have requested. Thereafter, we can discuss the Epistle of James. Please share you understanding of the gospel of God according to the Apostle Paul. If you think Paul wrote the book of Hebrews, you can quote from 14 books of the Bible to support your view and understanding.

[FFH]

Originally Posted by Fish-Hunter

I love the Epistle of James. It does need to be reconciled with the 13 or 14 Epistles of Paul. There is an apparent contradiction on a quick read, but both are true when understood in the light of the gospel of grace according to the Holy Bible. Before we get to James, let's please stick to the one topic that I have requested. Thereafter, we can discuss the Epistle of James. Please share you understanding of the gospel of God according to the Apostle Paul. If you think Paul wrote the book of Hebrews, you can quote from 14 books of the Bible to support your view and understanding.

Christ is the author of all scripture.

2 Nephi 20: 15
15 Shall the ax boast itself against him that heweth therewith? Shall the saw magnify itself against him that shaketh it? As if the rod should shake itself against them that lift it up, or as if the staff should lift up itself as if it were no wood!

Do these two scriptures in the Book of Mormon also contradict themselves ??? The answer is no. Christ only wants us to recognize by whom we are ultimately saved.

2 Nephi 10: 24
24 Wherefore, my beloved brethren, reconcile yourselves to the will of God, and not to the will of the devil and the flesh; and remember, after ye are reconciled unto God, that it is only in and through the grace of God that ye are saved.

2 Nephi 25: 23
23 For we labor diligently to write, to persuade our children, and also our brethren, to believe in Christ, and to be reconciled to God; for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do.

[Scott C.]

Originally Posted by Fish-Hunter

Matthew 7 - Words of Jesus from the Holy Bible

"Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it. "Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves.

Nice suit. It fits you well. (c'mon just funnin with ya)