LDS beliefs and the Bible

[idea]

Originally Posted by Fish-Hunter

If the Mormon Church considers the Holy Bible to be distorted and corrupt, why do you guys still use it?

We have the JST version that clears it all up I love the Bible and all that it teaches, but believe in a living God who still guides His people - not a dead god who has stopped writing scripture...

In any event – if all it took was the possession of a Bible to understand God, there would not be such divisions among the Christian faiths who use the Bible. The scribes and Pharisees had parts of the Bible in their own language, probably not distorted much – and they did not understand it. Modern day prophets are needed… more than just listening to and reading the words, acting on them is where you really come to understand.

The Bible is not complete:
Lost scriptures: There are many sacred writings mentioned in the scriptures that we do not have today, among which are these books and writers:
the covenant (Ex. 24:7),
the wars of the Lord (Num. 21:14),
Jasher (Josh. 10:13; 2 Sam. 1:18),
the acts of Solomon (1 Kgs. 11:41),
Samuel the seer (1 Chr. 29:29),
Nathan the prophet (2 Chr. 9:29),
Shemaiah the prophet (2 Chr. 12:15),
Iddo the prophet (2 Chr. 13:22),
Jehu (2 Chr. 20:34),
the sayings of the seers (2 Chr. 33:19),
Enoch (Jude 1:14),
and epistles to the Corinthians (1 Cor. 5:9),
to the Ephesians (Eph. 3:3), and from Laodicea (Col. 4:16).

Just out of curiosity, how do you interpret the following scriptures?

Isa. 29:11–14. 11 And the vision of all is become unto you as the words of a book that is sealed, which men deliver to one that is learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I cannot; for it is sealed:
12 And the book is delivered to him that is not learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I am not learned.

What is the book – and who is the person who is not learned?

Ezekiel 37:16 Moreover, thou son of man, take thee one stick, and write upon it, For Judah, and for the children of Israel his companions: then take another stick, and write upon it, For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim, and for all the house of Israel his companions:
17 And join them one to another into one stick; and they shall become one in thine hand.

The stick of Judah is of course the record of the Jewish people – the Bible. What would you say is the stick of Ephraim?

[Starfish]

May I add my 2 cents? I don't see the Bible as corrupt and distorted. It still contains huge amounts of truth, and invaluable teachings. It contains the life of Christ, and his words. We revere the Bible.
However, parts have been lost. Parts have been somewhat changed over the centuries to where the meaning is unclear, but still discernable through the help of the Holy Ghost. We believe with the help of the Book of Mormon and revelation from God, we are able to discern the truth from the Bible. We use it regularly in our pursuit to draw closer to Christ.

[DavyCrocket2003]

Originally Posted by Fish-Hunter

If the Mormon Church considers the Holy Bible to be distorted and corrupt, why do you guys still use it? Your Mormon missionaries use the bait and switch tactics of used car salesmen. You use the Holy Bible (bait) to enter an unsuspecting household, and make the switch with the Book of Mormon. The technique is quite effective for those who are unaware of what the Mormon Church really believes.

How so? What do you mean by "What the Mormon Church really believes"?

The bible isn't so much corrupt as incomplete. Do you claim that the Bible is a sufficient source of knowledge from which to obtain all truth about God? If yes, how can we acount for the plethora of Christian Churches? Are most of us just reading the Bible wrong and one group happens to have gotten it right? How does one go about differentiating between conlflicting claims?

[Polaris]

Originally Posted by Fish-Hunter

I rely on the Holy Spirit as He reveals the truth through the Holy Bible alone.

OK, so where do the scriptures teach that prophets, apostles and revelation ended with the NT? I would argue that it declares quite clearly the opposite to be true. God has always lead his people through living prophets and/or apostles.

The spirit that you follow speaks through various revelations contrary to the Bible such as your quotes from the Book of Mormon and Doctrine and Covenants.

That's not true. How are the teachings of the Book of Mormon, etc, contrary to the teachings of the Bible?

Originally Posted by Fish-Hunter

The LDS Faith has an extremely low view of the scriptures (Holy Bible) because you believe the Bible has been compromised by the apparent apostasy.

Again not true. We believe the Bible to be the word of God. We hold it in very high regard. What we place little trust in is man's ability to accurately interpret the teachings of the Bible. Thus the need for continuing revelation to God's appointed living prophets and apostles.

Your faith is built upon the insufficiency of Scriptures, banking on the corruption of the Holy Bible.

Once again not true. Our faith is built upon the foundation that the Savior himself established, a foundation of prophets, apostles and revelation with Christ being the chief corner. Our faith has nothing to do with banking on the corruption of the Bible. It has everything to do with our belief that God speaks to man today just as he did in every other dispensation of spiritual truth.

The true church of God is not a religious institution like the Roman Catholic Church organization, or the Mormon Church organization. The true church of God is made up of all individuals (redeemed sinners) throughout redemptive history that God united to Christ through faith.

It is true that the church of God is more than just a religious institution. It is a divine and living organization that is governed by Christ himself through revelation to his ordained prophets and apostles, who are authorized to perform saving ordinances and teach and clarify spiritual truths.

From the Bible (Ephesians 4:11-14)...

11. And he gave some apostles; and some prophets; and some evangelists; and some pastors and teachers;
12. For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
13. Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
14. That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;

This seems quite clear that prophets and apostles were intended to always be part of Christ's church.

[Scott C.]

Originally Posted by Fish-Hunter

If the Mormon Church considers the Holy Bible to be distorted and corrupt, why do you guys still use it? Your Mormon missionaries use the bait and switch tactics of used car salesmen. You use the Holy Bible (bait) to enter an unsuspecting household, and make the switch with the Book of Mormon. The technique is quite effective for those who are unaware of what the Mormon Church really believes.

You under estimate the LDS love for and acceptance of the Bible. I've read the New Testament many times, when I'm alone, and not trying the bait and switch you accuse us of. I love the NT. It offers truth about Jesus that is uniquely presented in it's pages. Yes, I believe in other scriptures also.

[Fish-Hunter]

Originally Posted by Scott C.

You under estimate the LDS love for and acceptance of the Bible. I've read the New Testament many times, when I'm alone, and not trying the bait and switch you accuse us of. I love the NT. It offers truth about Jesus that is uniquely presented in it's pages. Yes, I believe in other scriptures also.

I'm glad to hear that!

[Fish-Hunter]

Originally Posted by Polaris

OK, so where do the scriptures teach that prophets, apostles and revelation ended with the NT? I would argue that it declares quite clearly the opposite to be true. God has always lead his people through living prophets and/or apostles.

Hebrews 1 -The Son Superior to Joseph Smith

In the past God spoke to our forefathers through the prophets at many times and in various ways, but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe. The Son is the radiance of God's glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven.

Col 1 - The Supremacy of Christ

He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him. He is before all things, and in him all things hold together. And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy. For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.

Once you were alienated from God and were enemies in your minds because of your evil behavior. But now he has reconciled you by Christ's physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation— if you continue in your faith, established and firm, not moved from the hope held out in the gospel. This is the gospel that you heard and that has been proclaimed to every creature under heaven, and of which I, Paul, have become a servant.

Now I rejoice in what was suffered for you, and I fill up in my flesh what is still lacking in regard to Christ's afflictions, for the sake of his body, which is the church. I have become its servant by the commission God gave me to present to you the word of God in its fullness— the mystery that has been kept hidden for ages and generations, but is now disclosed to the saints. To them God has chosen to make known among the Gentiles the glorious riches of this mystery, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory.

We proclaim him, admonishing and teaching everyone with all wisdom, so that we may present everyone perfect in Christ. 29To this end I labor, struggling with all his energy, which so powerfully works in me.

Authentic Christianity does not share the affections of Christ with another (Joseph Smith). When you exalt a mere man and a religious institution above the Almighty Triunie God (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit), it's called idol worship.

Luke 14:26:
"If anyone comes to me and does not hate his father and mother, his wife and children, his brothers and sisters—yes, even his own life—he cannot be my disciple.

[Sola'lor]

Originally Posted by Fish-Hunter

Thanks again for the additional information. Therefore, you are a generational Mormon born into a Mormon household of faith. How far back does your geneology go back to the Mormon Church?

Four or five generations. I'm not sure exactly thought. My fiancee is a first generation convert.

Does your family tree have any relations to some of the founders or leaders of the Mormon Church?

Not that I'm aware of.

Would you consider Idaho a Mormon friendly state since it is adjacent to Utah, being very close to Salt Lake City (LDS Vatican)?

I thinkit's pretty mormon friendly. At least the southern half. I haven't been further up north so I'm not sure.

How long ago was your Mormon missionary trip to the Philipines?

Over two years ago.

Did you minister in Manila, and did you learn first hand about the stronghold bondage of Roman Catholicism in a predominate Roman Catholic country?

Nope. I was In primarily assigned in Ilocos Norte, Ilocos Sur, and a short time in Baguio.

What to you mean bondage of Roman Catholicism?

Did you find any similarities between Roman Catholicism and Mormonism such as apostolic succession and additional extra-biblical revelation?

I really didn't find that many similarities. But I learned alot more about the Roman Catholic church than I even knew before.

[Katzpur]

Note to Sola'lor, Orontes, idea, Starfish, DavyCrocket2003, Polaris, and Scott C:

A word to the wise. There are anti-Mormons who are willing to admit to your face that they're out to bash your beliefs. In an odd sort of way, they are to be commended for their honesty. There are other anti-Mormons who hide behind a mask of feigned interest and would like you to believe that they are genuinely trying to come to a better understanding of your beliefs, when in fact they will simply ignore everything you say and carry on as if you hadn't even answered their questions. They're also experts at sidestepping the issues when you turn the tables and start asking them questions. I suspect you all know this as well as I do. In the event that you don't know for sure which kind you're dealing with on this thread, I'm just giving you a heads up. Oh, and one more thing: Unless you're a first-generation convert who was raised agnostic in inner-city Detroit, you have nothing worthwhile to say anyway. If you were born in the Church, you couldn't possibly have made an informed decision about whether or not to accept the tenets of Mormonism.

For example, please read (if you haven't already) post #17 on this thread, in which the following statement was made: Authentic Christianity does not share the affections of Christ with another (Joseph Smith). When you exalt a mere man and a religious institution above the Almighty Triunie God (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit), it's called idol worship.

If Fish Hunter had paid the slightest bit of attention to anything I said in the many, many posts in which I patiently answered dozens of questions about LDS history and doctrine, he would not be making such an outlandish and knowingly false statement now. Since when did bearing false witness become the hallmark of an "authentic Christian" anyway?


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