LDS beliefs and the Bible

[Fish-Hunter]

God would never permit an LDS view of an apostasy because of His own glory and His own name sake. The Bible reveals that God is sovereign over all things. God is always in control because He is the Almighty One. If you study Scripture, you will see that God does everything for His own glory, and His own name sake. And what God does in His infinite wisdom is glorious. God would never allow those whom He has given to Christ in His complete sovereignty as His bride to be lost, because it is impossible for God to lie.

Job 23:13
"But he stands alone, and who can oppose him? He does whatever he pleases.

Psalm 115:3
Our God is in heaven; he does whatever pleases him.

Then Jesus declared, "I am the bread of life. He who comes to me will never go hungry, and he who believes in me will never be thirsty. But as I told you, you have seen me and still you do not believe. All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away. For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me. And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all that he has given me, but raise them up at the last day. For my Father's will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day." - John 6

[Orontes]

Originally Posted by Fish-Hunter

The church is not a religious organization...

This is an anachronistic position. It is a product of the 16th Century. This also applies to your views on sacraments/ordinances.

Originally Posted by Fish-Hunter

God would never permit an LDS view of an apostasy because of His own glory and His own name sake. The Bible reveals that God is sovereign over all things. God is always in control because He is the Almighty One.

This view has been spoken to: "This determinism is a product of Medieval Theology (though Calvin is the most systemic in its use). It rests upon an absurdity. I'll explain, if God is always in control of all things then God is responsible for all those things controlled. Evil acts would be included under "all things". Therefore, God is responsible for the evil and thus is evil. The absurdity of the deterministic view can be played out further: if God is in control of all things, then any Mormon is a Mormon by Divine will. Therefore any who seeks to work against that condition is actually working contrary to God."

[SoyLeche]

Originally Posted by Orontes

The absurdity of the deterministic view can be played out further: if God is in control of all things, then any Mormon is a Mormon by Divine will. Therefore any who seeks to work against that condition is actually working contrary to God."

It will really blow your mind when you realize that anyone that is "working contrary to God" will be doing so by God's will

[madhatter85]

Originally Posted by Fish-Hunter

If the Mormon Church considers the Holy Bible to be distorted and corrupt, why do you guys still use it? Your Mormon missionaries use the bait and switch tactics of used car salesmen. You use the Holy Bible (bait) to enter an unsuspecting household, and make the switch with the Book of Mormon. The technique is quite effective for those who are unaware of what the Mormon Church really believes.

This is completely wrong.

the Book of Mormon was written and compiled by ancient prophets for the concincing of people that the BIBLE is in fact TRUE.

the Book of Mormon supports the Bible and the Bible supports the Book of Mormon on many different levels and Facets, there are no contradictory statements between the two whatsoever.

have you read the Book of Mormon? have you studied it thouroghly and pondered it in your mind? have you prayed about it?

If you answered no to any of those questions, i would invite you to do those things.

The Book od Mormon was written with the intent that you would believe the Bible. that is the main purpose of the Book of Mormon.

here's a question.... something that has always fascinated me when the story of the first vision of Joseph Smith is shared is that he asked "which church to join" he did not ask for anything other than what following to make himself a part of. he Didn't ask to restore the gospel, he didn't ask for anything other than a simple answer to a simple question.

Why would so many different religious leaders take notice of a 15 year old boy who had claimed to see God and mock him and persecute him? why not just call him crazy and let him be? why so much violence and anger towards one young boy? is not anger and violence the works of him that is evil?

[madhatter85]

Originally Posted by Fish-Hunter

God would never permit an LDS view of an apostasy because of His own glory and His own name sake. The Bible reveals that God is sovereign over all things. God is always in control because He is the Almighty One. If you study Scripture, you will see that God does everything for His own glory, and His own name sake. And what God does in His infinite wisdom is glorious. God would never allow those whom He has given to Christ in His complete sovereignty as His bride to be lost, because it is impossible for God to lie.

Job 23:13
"But he stands alone, and who can oppose him? He does whatever he pleases.

Psalm 115:3
Our God is in heaven; he does whatever pleases him.

Then Jesus declared, "I am the bread of life. He who comes to me will never go hungry, and he who believes in me will never be thirsty. But as I told you, you have seen me and still you do not believe. All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away. For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me. And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all that he has given me, but raise them up at the last day. For my Father's will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day." - John 6

God is Just, he gave us free will to either accept or reject his prophets and the teachings of his Son Jesus Christ, the Savior of mankind. And God is Loving which is why he sent his Son to meet the demands of the enternal law of Justice.

If God took control of everyone's mind would they not all be the same religion? would we all be no more than mere cattle on a shute? if he deliberately controlled our wills then why would there be a need for a savior?

[zeezrom]

Originally Posted by Fish-Hunter

God would never permit an LDS view of an apostasy because of His own glory and His own name sake. The Bible reveals that God is sovereign over all things. God is always in control because He is the Almighty One. If you study Scripture, you will see that God does everything for His own glory, and His own name sake. And what God does in His infinite wisdom is glorious. God would never allow those whom He has given to Christ in His complete sovereignty as His bride to be lost, because it is impossible for God to lie.
Job 23 :13
"But he stands alone, and who can oppose him? He does whatever he pleases.
Psalm 15:4
Our God is in heaven; he does whatever pleases him.

Then Jesus declared, "I am the bread of life. He who comes to me will never go hungry, and he who believes in me will never be thirsty. But as I told you, you have seen me and still you do not believe. All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away. For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me. And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all that he has given me, but raise them up at the last day. For my Father's will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day." - John 6

Actually there is alot of substantial proof of ancient text and documents referring to the apostasy, Many ancient christians writers such as origen, and Tertullian have written many text on this topic. (Tertullian wrote against many of the Christian sects in his day and eventually switched from what we today call the "orthodox" Christian sect to the Montanist Christian sect because the Montanists still believed in continuing revelation, whereas the other Christian sects did not. He claimed there was "proof of the Gospel. . . having become meanwhile adulterated."Tertullian notes that a Christian sect of his day "does not receive certain Scriptures." - john gee)
These writers acknowledged this state of aposasy and laid accusations down even for the corruption of scripture in the early 2nd century.

We also have to ask ourselves, If the apostasy never happened, Then what happened to christ's church?
11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evengelist; and some, pastors and teachers;
12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of christ.
13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowlegde of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;

The body of christ is his church
27 Now ye are the body of christ, and members in particular. 28 And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.

And... We know that there must be a gathering of israel before the 2nd coming of the lord, a literal gathering, There must be an organization of something to help that come to pass. These things were lost, So they were Restored.`

[Mestemia]

Originally Posted by Fish-Hunter

It is impossible for me to give you spiritual eyes to see. God grants spiritual eyes to some according to His good pleasure, His name sake, and His own glory. God conceals Himself from others.

Nice cop out.
So anyone who disagrees with your version of God has to be wrong because they disagree with your beliefs?

[Mestemia]

Originally Posted by Fish-Hunter

God would never permit an LDS view of an apostasy because of His own glory and His own name sake.

Funny, the LDS do have this view you claim god would not allow.
Seems you either misspoke this sentence or you are merely ranting now.