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  #1001  
Old 05-29-2008, 08:24 PM
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FFH likes the look on kids' faces when you tell them their frubals are falling offFFH likes the look on kids' faces when you tell them their frubals are falling offFFH likes the look on kids' faces when you tell them their frubals are falling offFFH likes the look on kids' faces when you tell them their frubals are falling offFFH likes the look on kids' faces when you tell them their frubals are falling offFFH likes the look on kids' faces when you tell them their frubals are falling offFFH likes the look on kids' faces when you tell them their frubals are falling offFFH likes the look on kids' faces when you tell them their frubals are falling offFFH likes the look on kids' faces when you tell them their frubals are falling offFFH likes the look on kids' faces when you tell them their frubals are falling offFFH likes the look on kids' faces when you tell them their frubals are falling offFFH likes the look on kids' faces when you tell them their frubals are falling offFFH likes the look on kids' faces when you tell them their frubals are falling offFFH likes the look on kids' faces when you tell them their frubals are falling offFFH likes the look on kids' faces when you tell them their frubals are falling off
FFH likes the look on kids' faces when you tell them their frubals are falling offFFH likes the look on kids' faces when you tell them their frubals are falling offFFH likes the look on kids' faces when you tell them their frubals are falling offFFH likes the look on kids' faces when you tell them their frubals are falling offFFH likes the look on kids' faces when you tell them their frubals are falling offFFH likes the look on kids' faces when you tell them their frubals are falling offFFH likes the look on kids' faces when you tell them their frubals are falling offFFH likes the look on kids' faces when you tell them their frubals are falling offFFH likes the look on kids' faces when you tell them their frubals are falling off
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Originally Posted by Orontes View Post
Of course the other difficulty is if one took John 4:24 "God is spirit..." as being a metaphysical claim and then further concluded it was an exclusive statement: as in God is only a spirit, then one would have to deny Jesus was divine as He was tabernacled in flesh.
The verses will be different because of missing and incorrect scripture.

John 4 (King James)
19 The woman saith unto him, Sir, I perceive that thou art a prophet.

20 Our fathers worshipped in this mountain; and ye say, that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship.

21 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.

22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.

23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.

24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

25 The woman saith unto him, I know that Messias cometh, which is called Christ: when he is come, he will tell us all things.

26 Jesus saith unto her, aI that speak unto thee am he.


Notice the difference in verse numbers.

John 4 (Joseph Smith inspired version)
21 The woman said unto him, Sir, I perceive that thou art a prophet.

22 Our fathers worshipped in this mountain; and ye say that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship.

23 Jesus said unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.

24 Ye worship ye know not what; we know what we worship; and salvation is of the Jews.

25 And the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshipers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth; for the Father seeketh such to worship him.

26 For unto such hath God promised his Spirit. And they who worship him, must worship in spirit and in truth.

27 The woman said unto him, I know that Messias cometh, who is called Christ; when he is come, he will tell us all things.

28 Jesus said unto her, I who speak unto thee am the Messias.
Last edited by FFH; 05-29-2008 at 08:30 PM..
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  #1002  
Old 05-29-2008, 08:31 PM
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This is where we part ways.

There are errors in the King James, which cause fundamental doctrinal errors and confusion among Christians.

God is a man like you and I, only he has obtained a perfect resurrected exalted body that cannot feel pain, cannot become sick, is not subject to damage, cannot die, etc. God has also eliminated all sin from his life, thus he has become perfect.

John 4 24 has been changed from it's original content.

It should read...

Joseph Smith inspired version of King James John 4:24
"For unto such hath God promised his Spirit. And they who worship him, must worship in spirit and in truth".

Look at that chapter in context and you'll see that this is correct and the King James is in error.

This is exactly why we need moder day prophets, for this very purpose.

Joseph Smith has thoroughly gone through the King James and corrected the errors, through inspiration from God, using a Urim and Thummim, which was also used by men of God in the Old Testaments.
Hi FFH,

That's okay...let's just disagree agreeably right now on that issue. I think the LDS presentation would continue with additional information and questions, right? Just please keep going with your original plan. I haven't even read about the testimony of Joseph Smith. Please stay on course to share the entire LDS Faith, and don't anticipate our answers. We can get into specific issues after you present the entire LDS Faith. You have my word that I will do my best to answer your questions later on. I will not have answers for all of your questions either. We are trying to understand The Infinite perfectly wise being that we worship as Almighty God.



Where are you act on your presentation?
Last edited by Fish-Hunter; 05-29-2008 at 08:42 PM..
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  #1003  
Old 05-29-2008, 08:45 PM
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FFH likes the look on kids' faces when you tell them their frubals are falling offFFH likes the look on kids' faces when you tell them their frubals are falling offFFH likes the look on kids' faces when you tell them their frubals are falling offFFH likes the look on kids' faces when you tell them their frubals are falling offFFH likes the look on kids' faces when you tell them their frubals are falling offFFH likes the look on kids' faces when you tell them their frubals are falling offFFH likes the look on kids' faces when you tell them their frubals are falling offFFH likes the look on kids' faces when you tell them their frubals are falling offFFH likes the look on kids' faces when you tell them their frubals are falling off
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Originally Posted by Fish-Hunter View Post
Hi FFH,

That's okay...let's just disagree agreeably right now on that issue. I think the LDS presentation would continue with additional questions, right? Just please keep going with your original plan.
Okay, we've established that God uses modern day prophets in these last days to reveal all truths pertaining to the "fullness" of his gospel and we can test to see what is truth and what is not by praying and asking the Holy Ghost to reveal the "truth of all things" to us.

Pray, ponder and read correct and inspired scripture.

Remember, we believe in the Bible "as long as it is translated correctly".

See: The LDS Articles of Faith

Let's move on...

Discussion 2

The First Principles and Ordinances of the Gospel of Jesus Christ

1) Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ
2) Repentance
3) Baptism by immersion for the remission of sins (by one who possesses the correct authority)
4) Laying of of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost (by one who possesses the correct authority)

Endure to the end (continued obedience to God's laws)

And I'll add...

Temple ordinances also must be performed, (after a year of continued obedience to the principles of Christ's restored gospel found in the LDS faith) allowing the individual to partake of complete salvation and exaltaion with God the Father, and his Son Jesus Christ, in their kingdom.
Last edited by FFH; 05-29-2008 at 10:53 PM..
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  #1004  
Old 05-29-2008, 08:47 PM
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FFH likes the look on kids' faces when you tell them their frubals are falling offFFH likes the look on kids' faces when you tell them their frubals are falling offFFH likes the look on kids' faces when you tell them their frubals are falling offFFH likes the look on kids' faces when you tell them their frubals are falling offFFH likes the look on kids' faces when you tell them their frubals are falling offFFH likes the look on kids' faces when you tell them their frubals are falling offFFH likes the look on kids' faces when you tell them their frubals are falling offFFH likes the look on kids' faces when you tell them their frubals are falling offFFH likes the look on kids' faces when you tell them their frubals are falling offFFH likes the look on kids' faces when you tell them their frubals are falling offFFH likes the look on kids' faces when you tell them their frubals are falling offFFH likes the look on kids' faces when you tell them their frubals are falling offFFH likes the look on kids' faces when you tell them their frubals are falling offFFH likes the look on kids' faces when you tell them their frubals are falling offFFH likes the look on kids' faces when you tell them their frubals are falling off
FFH likes the look on kids' faces when you tell them their frubals are falling offFFH likes the look on kids' faces when you tell them their frubals are falling offFFH likes the look on kids' faces when you tell them their frubals are falling offFFH likes the look on kids' faces when you tell them their frubals are falling offFFH likes the look on kids' faces when you tell them their frubals are falling offFFH likes the look on kids' faces when you tell them their frubals are falling offFFH likes the look on kids' faces when you tell them their frubals are falling offFFH likes the look on kids' faces when you tell them their frubals are falling offFFH likes the look on kids' faces when you tell them their frubals are falling off
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Originally Posted by Fish-Hunter View Post


Where are you act on your presentation?
my flip chart is still at home and I'm at work, so I'll get it later and try to post the corresponding pics for each discussion. It's not that important at this point, just silliness.
Last edited by FFH; 05-29-2008 at 10:02 PM..
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  #1005  
Old 05-29-2008, 08:53 PM
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FFH likes the look on kids' faces when you tell them their frubals are falling offFFH likes the look on kids' faces when you tell them their frubals are falling offFFH likes the look on kids' faces when you tell them their frubals are falling offFFH likes the look on kids' faces when you tell them their frubals are falling offFFH likes the look on kids' faces when you tell them their frubals are falling offFFH likes the look on kids' faces when you tell them their frubals are falling offFFH likes the look on kids' faces when you tell them their frubals are falling offFFH likes the look on kids' faces when you tell them their frubals are falling offFFH likes the look on kids' faces when you tell them their frubals are falling offFFH likes the look on kids' faces when you tell them their frubals are falling offFFH likes the look on kids' faces when you tell them their frubals are falling offFFH likes the look on kids' faces when you tell them their frubals are falling offFFH likes the look on kids' faces when you tell them their frubals are falling offFFH likes the look on kids' faces when you tell them their frubals are falling offFFH likes the look on kids' faces when you tell them their frubals are falling off
FFH likes the look on kids' faces when you tell them their frubals are falling offFFH likes the look on kids' faces when you tell them their frubals are falling offFFH likes the look on kids' faces when you tell them their frubals are falling offFFH likes the look on kids' faces when you tell them their frubals are falling offFFH likes the look on kids' faces when you tell them their frubals are falling offFFH likes the look on kids' faces when you tell them their frubals are falling offFFH likes the look on kids' faces when you tell them their frubals are falling offFFH likes the look on kids' faces when you tell them their frubals are falling offFFH likes the look on kids' faces when you tell them their frubals are falling off
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It's extremely slow at work, so I think the Lord is doing this to allow me to get this done, otherwise I wouldn't have enough time to give this my proper attention.
Last edited by FFH; 05-29-2008 at 10:10 PM..
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  #1006  
Old 05-29-2008, 08:55 PM
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It is extremely slow at work, so I think God is doing this to allow me to get this done, otherwise I would not have enough time to give this my proper attention.
Why don't you think Satan is sending in more business?
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  #1007  
Old 05-29-2008, 09:08 PM
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FFH likes the look on kids' faces when you tell them their frubals are falling offFFH likes the look on kids' faces when you tell them their frubals are falling offFFH likes the look on kids' faces when you tell them their frubals are falling offFFH likes the look on kids' faces when you tell them their frubals are falling offFFH likes the look on kids' faces when you tell them their frubals are falling offFFH likes the look on kids' faces when you tell them their frubals are falling offFFH likes the look on kids' faces when you tell them their frubals are falling offFFH likes the look on kids' faces when you tell them their frubals are falling offFFH likes the look on kids' faces when you tell them their frubals are falling offFFH likes the look on kids' faces when you tell them their frubals are falling offFFH likes the look on kids' faces when you tell them their frubals are falling offFFH likes the look on kids' faces when you tell them their frubals are falling offFFH likes the look on kids' faces when you tell them their frubals are falling offFFH likes the look on kids' faces when you tell them their frubals are falling offFFH likes the look on kids' faces when you tell them their frubals are falling off
FFH likes the look on kids' faces when you tell them their frubals are falling offFFH likes the look on kids' faces when you tell them their frubals are falling offFFH likes the look on kids' faces when you tell them their frubals are falling offFFH likes the look on kids' faces when you tell them their frubals are falling offFFH likes the look on kids' faces when you tell them their frubals are falling offFFH likes the look on kids' faces when you tell them their frubals are falling offFFH likes the look on kids' faces when you tell them their frubals are falling offFFH likes the look on kids' faces when you tell them their frubals are falling offFFH likes the look on kids' faces when you tell them their frubals are falling off
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Why don't you think Satan is sending in more business?
God took care of him today after he caught him trying to knock out my computer with that freak storm.

I've never seen the power flicker off and on so rapidly like that before, ever. It was similar to a semi-automatic or machine gun type speed as it flickered on and off. I was sure my computer was a gonner.

I have no surge protector here at work.
Last edited by FFH; 05-29-2008 at 09:35 PM..
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  #1008  
Old 05-29-2008, 10:30 PM
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FFH likes the look on kids' faces when you tell them their frubals are falling offFFH likes the look on kids' faces when you tell them their frubals are falling offFFH likes the look on kids' faces when you tell them their frubals are falling offFFH likes the look on kids' faces when you tell them their frubals are falling offFFH likes the look on kids' faces when you tell them their frubals are falling offFFH likes the look on kids' faces when you tell them their frubals are falling offFFH likes the look on kids' faces when you tell them their frubals are falling offFFH likes the look on kids' faces when you tell them their frubals are falling offFFH likes the look on kids' faces when you tell them their frubals are falling offFFH likes the look on kids' faces when you tell them their frubals are falling offFFH likes the look on kids' faces when you tell them their frubals are falling offFFH likes the look on kids' faces when you tell them their frubals are falling offFFH likes the look on kids' faces when you tell them their frubals are falling offFFH likes the look on kids' faces when you tell them their frubals are falling offFFH likes the look on kids' faces when you tell them their frubals are falling off
FFH likes the look on kids' faces when you tell them their frubals are falling offFFH likes the look on kids' faces when you tell them their frubals are falling offFFH likes the look on kids' faces when you tell them their frubals are falling offFFH likes the look on kids' faces when you tell them their frubals are falling offFFH likes the look on kids' faces when you tell them their frubals are falling offFFH likes the look on kids' faces when you tell them their frubals are falling offFFH likes the look on kids' faces when you tell them their frubals are falling offFFH likes the look on kids' faces when you tell them their frubals are falling offFFH likes the look on kids' faces when you tell them their frubals are falling off
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I'm bored so I'll post the last 4 discussions

Discussion 3

Apostacy of Christ's True Church
Restoration of the Fullness of the Gospel of Jesus Christ

Discussion 4

Plan of Salvation

Pre-mortal Existence
Eternal Progression
Eternal Families
Ongoing Work for the Dead in Sacred LDS Temples

Law of Chastity
Word of Wisdom (LDS health code)

Discussion 5

Sacrifice Brings Blessings

Fasting
Tithes and Offerings

Discussion 6

Three-fold Mission of the Church

Perfect the Saints
Proclaim the Gospel (Christ's fully restored gospel)
Redeem the Dead

I'll post the other two discussions here so they're all together

Discussion 1

The Plan of our Heavenly Father

1) God has used ancient and modern prophets to reveal his plan through all generations of time.

2) Joseph Smith was a modern day prophet of the Lord, who restored the fullness of Jesus Christ's gospel in these last days.

3) The Book of Mormon is a sacred record of those who lived on the ancient American continent, some of whom Christ personally visited, after his death on the cross.

4) The Holy Ghost reveals God's truths to men on earth.

5) Moroni (whom buried the plates, in what is now known as Upstate, New York, where Joseph Smith later discovered them) has promised us, in the Book of Mormon, that if we pray with real intent, we can know the "truth of all things".

Moroni 10: 4-5
4 And when ye shall receive these things, I would exhort you that ye would ask God, the Eternal Father, in the name of Christ, if these things are not true; and if ye shall ask with a sincere heart, with real intent, having faith in Christ, he will manifest the truth of it unto you, by the power of the Holy Ghost.

5 And by the power of the Holy Ghost ye may know the truth of all things.

Discussion 2

The First Principles and Ordinances of the Gospel of Jesus Christ

1) Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ
2) Repentance
3) Baptism by Immersion for the Remission of Sins (by one who possesses the correct authority)
4) Laying of of Hands for the Gift of the Holy Ghost (by one who possesses the correct authority)

Endure to the End (continued obedience to God's laws)

And I'll add...

Temple ordinances also can be performed, (after a year of continued obedience to the principles of Christ's restored gospel) allowing the individual to eventually partake of complete salvation and exaltaion with God the Father, and his Son Jesus Christ, in their kingdom (highest degree of glory).

Also please refer to: The LDS Articles of Faith

Joseph Smith ~ First President of the LDS Faith and Author of the Articles of Faith


LDS Temple ~ Salt Lake City, Utah
Last edited by FFH; 05-29-2008 at 11:55 PM..
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  #1009  
Old 05-30-2008, 07:45 AM
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The verses will be different because of missing and incorrect scripture.
Of course, but until your audience has gained a testimony of the JST, perhaps you should stick with what they believe.
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  #1010  
Old 05-30-2008, 10:26 AM
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Originally Posted by FFH View Post
Okay, we've established that God uses modern day prophets in these last days to reveal all truths pertaining to the "fullness" of his gospel and we can test to see what is truth and what is not by praying and asking the Holy Ghost to reveal the "truth of all things" to us.

Pray, ponder and read correct and inspired scripture.

Remember, we believe in the Bible "as long as it is translated correctly".

See: The LDS Articles of Faith

Let's move on...
You guys are great and put a smile on my face. Let's say we understand that the LDS Faith teaches that God uses modern day Prophets in these last days. In think Rome would argue that God uses modern day Apostles in these last days (Peter and apostolic succession).
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