War in heaven? (Earth, Revelation, Christianity, Satan, God)

[Darkness]

Originally Posted by Random

Factions in Hell? Hmm. You guys are really making me think...

The high ranking Fallen Angels are compassionate towards the damned human soul, but there are demons who are evil and sadistic.

Originally Posted by Katzpur

I disagree. I believe that Lucifer/Satan was cast out of Heaven prior to the foundation of this earth.

I always imagined Lucifer and Satan being cast out after the Garden of Eden incident.

[lockyfan]

Yet in Job it clearly states that Satan when asked by Jehovah (I am paraphasing) where he has been and satan replied that he had been on the earth. And this conversation happens after the Garden of Eden and in Heaven. so clearly it is definately after the garden of Eden and before the prophesies of revelation which when John wrote it, all that still had to happen.

[lockyfan]

Originally Posted by Tau

There are many factions in heaven...

Correction. there WERE factions. the war in heaven got rid of satan from heaven and he is now exclusively on the earth.

Satan is trying to prove himself a better ruler than God. which satan has proven that he is as he is the one that is ruling this world at the moment. God allowed him to, to let satan and other angels and us humans to see exactly what would happen if God was not ruling this earth.

[kai]

since mankind is so inclined to make war its only natural that when he concieved the notion of heaven he would have a war in his heaven, if mankind considered war to be abhorent you would think he would put it in his hell

[gnostic]

Originally Posted by lockyfan

Yet in Job it clearly states that Satan when asked by Jehovah (I am paraphasing) where he has been and satan replied that he had been on the earth.

So what?

There have been other angels on earth, other than Satan. The two angels who saved Lot, the angel that met with Abraham. The angel that wrestled with Jacob.

Originally Posted by lockyfan

Satan is trying to prove himself a better ruler than God. which satan has proven that he is as he is the one that is ruling this world at the moment.

It doesn't prove Satan the world at all. If anything, the Book of Job proved that Satan is agent of God, God's lackey, God's middleman. Satan did what God instructed him to. That doesn't to be the one ruling.

And there prove to be no war in heaven at all, between god and satan.

[Darkness]

Originally Posted by gnostic

It doesn't prove Satan the world at all. If anything, the Book of Job proved that Satan is agent of God, God's lackey, God's middleman. Satan did what God instructed him to. That doesn't to be the one ruling.

You get that impression? To me, he appears as a rival god.

[gnostic]

Originally Posted by darkness

You get that impression? To me, he appears as a rival god.

In the revelation, Satan appeared as a rival god.

In job, Satan appeared to agent of God.

Before the Exile, Satan doesn't appeared at all, so I don't believe he exist.

But if there is only 1 god, as these late Abrahamic religions claimed then God and Satan are one and the same, but with 2 different faces on the same coin.

It is all a matter of interpretations.

From my perspective, Lucifer and Satan are two different mythical people. The OT Satan, particularly the one in Job, is also different from the NT Satan aka the Devil.

[kai]

Originally Posted by Random

Factions in Hell? Hmm. You guys are really making me think...

yes theres the Popular front forthe Liberation of Hell for a start, then theres the Hades Republican Army

[lockyfan]

Originally Posted by gnostic

So what?

There have been other angels on earth, other than Satan. The two angels who saved Lot, the angel that met with Abraham. The angel that wrestled with Jacob.


It doesn't prove Satan the world at all. If anything, the Book of Job proved that Satan is agent of God, God's lackey, God's middleman. Satan did what God instructed him to. That doesn't to be the one ruling.

And there prove to be no war in heaven at all, between god and satan.

Yet in Job, God says to satan that he knew satans eye had turned to Job and that he was not to kill him, thats it. But then it is also said in the gospels and pretty much everywher else that there are two sides. saytan and Jehovah, if you are not on Jehovahs dside you are on satans.

therefore there is clearly a divide between satan and God and that is that satan has turned away from God

Also it is shown in revelation that satan is on another side to God as well, for God is actually going to have satan destroyed. therefore your idea that satan is Gods lackey is not based upon the bible at all.

[gnostic]

Originally Posted by lockyfan

Also it is shown in revelation that satan is on another side to God as well, for God is actually going to have satan destroyed. therefore your idea that satan is Gods lackey is not based upon the bible at all.

Not to the Old Testament, it is not. Satan as I said previous, is totally different person to the one in the NT.

And just how reliable is the revelation as a source of information?

In Isaiah, Christians believed that the Morning Star (Lucifer) is Satan, but you are mistaken, it clearly refer to the King of Babylon in Isaiah's time, and at the end of Revelation, it is Jesus who is the Morning Star. It seemed that your Jesus is more Lucifer in the NT than Satan is.

My Satan may not be based upon the NT, but your Satan is not based on the OT. That you rely on the mad, and often incoherent account in the Revelation, showed how desperate you are, while discounting the account in Job.