War in heaven? (Earth, Revelation, Christianity, Satan, God)

[logician]

Be thankful, there is no god, satan or lucifer, all man-made myths, just like the gods and devils of many other cultures.

[gnostic]

Originally Posted by charity

Isaiah 14:12 15 KJV Lucifer is Fallen, The good thing about this is I can believe what I want and you can believe what you desire to believe..

If you have read the whole chapter, you will see that the Son of Morning is a metaphor of the King of Babylon.

It is also a metaphor for the morning star, which appeared in the just before dawn. The other stars will disappeared before Venus, and then vanishing as the sun rise out of horizon, hence the Fall of the Morning Star.

L-U-C-I-F-E-R was never used by Isaiah, and it is a name for the morning star, was provided through Latin translation which was Eosphoros in Greek.

I seriously don't think Son of Morning, Lucifer, morning star or Venus has anything to do with Satan. Never, in any part of the bible, that linked Lucifer explicitly to Satan.

So Isaiah's referred to the king of Babylon, but the morning star wasn't linked to just a single person. And if you have revelation's last chapter, you will see that Lucifer is Jesus.

Originally Posted by Revelation 22:16

I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.

morning star = Jesus, hence Jesus = Lucifer.

Nice try, charity, but your argument is seriously flawed, unless you think Jesus is Satan. If you do think so, then that would tie the loose ends about Lucifer.

[gnostic]

Originally Posted by sojourner

I wonder how much of the Revelation accounts are speculative and metaphorical, not actual recorded "future history?"

I don't think there is any such thing as "future history". Is there?

History is a recording of the past events. The future hasn't been lay down. Prophecy or other form of divination seemed to me to be guesswork, prediction or even delusion of "what to be". Prophecy, like those supposedly found in the Revelation is either madness, metaphors of past or contemporary events that had already happened, or texts are so vague that it can be broadly interpreted.

[lockyfan]

Originally Posted by Katzpur

Not in whose day? Lucifer was cast out of heaven as a result of his role as leader of the rebellion that preceded the creation of our earth. He has been tempting people here on earth since long before 1914.

When John wrote Revelation Satan was still in Heaven. Meaning he had not been bannished from heaven.

satan was in between two worlds, creating havoc in both heaven and earth, then when the war in heaven broke out he was hurled to the earth. tyhis happened at the end of the "gentile" times or time of the nations, which ended in 1914, when Christ was enthroned in heaven.


But if you read revelation, satan then has a short time of just concentrating on earth, which is why we have the orld the way it is, as his time is getting shorter andshorter before he is going to be imprisoned during Jah's Judgement Day when all those who are dead (before armageddon) will be risen and every person, whether you are ressurected or live through armageddon are then judged and given the chance to learn to live the way God wants you to

[Tau]

There are many factions in heaven...

[Darkness]

Originally Posted by Tau

There are many factions in heaven...

As in Hell....

[Random]

Originally Posted by Tau

There are many factions in heaven...

Hmm. I'd have to think about that one...

[Random]

Originally Posted by Darkness

As in Hell....

Factions in Hell? Hmm. You guys are really making me think...

[gnostic]

Originally Posted by katzpur

Not in whose day? Lucifer was cast out of heaven as a result of his role as leader of the rebellion that preceded the creation of our earth. He has been tempting people here on earth since long before 1914.

Originally Posted by lockyfan

When John wrote Revelation Satan was still in Heaven. Meaning he had not been bannished from heaven.

satan was in between two worlds, creating havoc in both heaven and earth, then when the war in heaven broke out he was hurled to the earth. tyhis happened at the end of the "gentile" times or time of the nations, which ended in 1914, when Christ was enthroned in heaven.

Actually there are several different versions of when Satan was cast out, but none of them are found in the Old Testament.

You have mentioned Revelation, Lockyfan, as it not happened yet.

But several other sources, from non-canonical texts, indicate otherwise.

The Haggada, the Book of Jubilees and several passages found in the Talmud, and even in the Islamic Qur'an, saying that Satan's Fall occurred while Adam was still in Eden.

I don't think the Revelation is about prophecies of the future, but events that have happened during Jesus' time...right up to point when the author writing the Revelation, but these past and contemporary events are hidden in symbolism. And all the angels, devil/Satan, mythical beasts (like the dragon, 2 beasts, etc), may be linked to real people.

The pregnant woman with the sun at her feet, could have to do with Mary being pregnant with Jesus, and the dragon that pursued the woman, could be Herod the Great. The 2 beasts, and the one with 666, could be the Roman emperors, Nero and Domitian. The whore of Babylon could be Rome.

What I am getting at is that the Revelation is not good book to understand, and could be interpreted in a number of ways. Crazy people have interpreted the apocalypse to the end of the world, Last Judgement and 2nd Coming of Christ, since the Revelation and each time they were proven wrong. The 2nd Coming have been predicted or interpreted by church and doomsday cults 50 years after Christ, then 100 years, 1000 years, 1200 years, 1500 years and 2000 years after Jesus. None of them have been proven except it made them look like fools.

[Katzpur]

Originally Posted by lockyfan

When John wrote Revelation Satan was still in Heaven. Meaning he had not been bannished from heaven.

I disagree. I believe that Lucifer/Satan was cast out of Heaven prior to the foundation of this earth.