The Body of Jesus (crucifixion, Kingdom, experience, Christians, heaven)

[Popeyesays]

The nature of sin? This might be interesting:


29: EXPLANATION OF VERSE TWENTY-TWO, CHAPTER FIFTEEN, OF THE FIRST EPISTLE OF ST. PAUL TO THE CORINTHIANS 1Question.--In verse 22 of chapter 15 of 1 Corinthians it is written: "For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive." What is the meaning of these words?
2Answer.--Know that there are two natures in man: the physical nature and the spiritual nature. The physical nature is inherited from Adam, and the spiritual nature is inherited from the Reality of the Word of God, which is the spirituality of Christ. The physical nature is born of Adam, but the spiritual nature is born from the bounty of the Holy Spirit. The first is the source of all imperfection; the second is the source of all perfection.
3The Christ sacrificed Himself so that men might be freed from the imperfections of the physical nature and might become possessed of the virtues of the spiritual nature. This spiritual nature, which came into existence through the bounty of the Divine Reality, is the union of all perfections and appears through the breath of the Holy Spirit. It is the divine perfections; it is light, spirituality, guidance, exaltation, high aspiration, justice, love, grace, kindness to all, philanthropy, the essence of life. It is the reflection of the splendor of the Sun of Reality.
4The Christ is the central point of the Holy Spirit: He is born of the Holy Spirit; He is raised up by the Holy Spirit; He is the descendant of the Holy Spirit--that is to say, that the Reality of Christ does not descend from Adam; no, it is born of the Holy Spirit. Therefore, this verse in Corinthians, "As in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive," means, according to this terminology, that Adam [1] is the father of man--that is to say, He is the cause of the physical life of mankind; His was the physical fatherhood. He is a living soul, but He is not the giver of spiritual life, whereas Christ is the cause of the spiritual life of man, and with regard to the spirit, His was the spiritual fatherhood. Adam is a living soul; Christ is a quickening spirit.
5This physical world of man is subject to the power of the lusts, and sin is the consequence of this power of the lusts, for it is not subject to the laws of justice and holiness. The body of man is a captive of nature; it will act in accordance with whatever nature orders. It is, therefore, certain that sins such as anger, jealousy, dispute, covetousness, avarice, ignorance, prejudice, hatred, pride and tyranny exist in the physical world. All these brutal qualities exist in the nature of man. A man who has not had a spiritual education is a brute. Like the savages of Africa, whose actions, habits and morals are purely sensual, they act according to the demands of nature to such a degree that they rend and eat one another. Thus it is evident that the physical world of man is a world of sin. In this physical world man is not distinguished from the animal.
6All sin comes from the demands of nature, and these demands, which arise from the physical qualities, are not sins with respect to the animals, while for man they are sin. The animal is the source of imperfections, such as anger, sensuality, jealousy, avarice, cruelty, pride: all these defects are found in animals but do not constitute sins. But in man they are sins.
7Adam is the cause of man's physical life; but the Reality of Christ--that is to say, the Word of God--is the cause of spiritual life. It is "a quickening spirit," meaning that all the imperfections which come from the requirements of the physical life of man are transformed into human perfections by the teachings and education of that spirit. Therefore, Christ was a quickening spirit, and the cause of life in all mankind.
8Adam was the cause of physical life, and as the physical world of man is the world of imperfections, and imperfections are the equivalent of death, Paul compared the physical imperfections to death.
9But the mass of the Christians believe that, as Adam ate of the forbidden tree, He sinned in that He disobeyed, and that the disastrous consequences of this disobedience have been transmitted as a heritage and have remained among His descendants. Hence Adam became the cause of the death of humanity. This explanation is unreasonable and evidently wrong, for it means that all men, even the Prophets and the Messengers of God, without committing any sin or fault, but simply because they are the posterity of Adam, have become without reason guilty sinners, and until the day of the sacrifice of Christ were held captive in hell in painful torment. This is far from the justice of God. If Adam was a sinner, what is the sin of Abraham? What is the fault of Isaac, or of Joseph? Of what is Moses guilty?
10But Christ, Who is the Word of God, sacrificed Himself. This has two meanings, an apparent and an esoteric meaning. The outward meaning is this: Christ's intention was to represent and promote a Cause which was to educate the human world, to quicken the children of Adam, and to enlighten all mankind; and since to represent such a great Cause--a Cause which was antagonistic to all the people of the world and all the nations and kingdoms-- meant that He would be killed and crucified, so Christ in proclaiming His mission sacrificed His life. He regarded the cross as a throne, the wound as a balm, the poison as honey and sugar. He arose to teach and educate men, and so He sacrificed Himself to give the spirit of life. He perished in body so as to quicken others by the spirit.
11The second meaning of sacrifice is this: Christ was like a seed, and this seed sacrificed its own form so that the tree might grow and develop. Although the form of the seed was destroyed, its reality became apparent in perfect majesty and beauty in the form of a tree.
12The position of Christ was that of absolute perfection; He made His divine perfections shine like the sun upon all believing souls, and the bounties of the light shone and radiated in the reality of men. This is why He says: "I am the bread which descended from heaven; whosoever shall eat of this bread will not die" [2] --that is to say, that whosoever shall partake of this divine food will attain unto eternal life: that is, every one who partakes of this bounty and receives these perfections will find eternal life, will obtain preexistent favors, will be freed from the darkness of error, and will be illuminated by the light of His guidance.
13The form of the seed was sacrificed for the tree, but its perfections, because of this sacrifice, became evident and apparent--the tree, the branches, the leaves and the blossoms being concealed in the seed. When the form of the seed was sacrificed, its perfections appeared in the perfect form of leaves, blossoms and fruits.


Notes

1. [Abu'l-bashar, i.e., the father of man, is one of the titles given by the Muslims to Adam.] 2. <A name="Footnote 95">[Cf. John 6:41, 50, 58]

[sandy whitelinger]

Originally Posted by Popeyesays

9But the mass of the Christians believe that, as Adam ate of the forbidden tree, He sinned in that He disobeyed, and that the disastrous consequences of this disobedience have been transmitted as a heritage and have remained among His descendants. Hence Adam became the cause of the death of humanity. This explanation is unreasonable and evidently wrong, for it means that all men, even the Prophets and the Messengers of God, without committing any sin or fault, but simply because they are the posterity of Adam, have become without reason guilty sinners, and until the day of the sacrifice of Christ were held captive in hell in painful torment.

Whoever wrote this is correct in that the explaination is unreasonable and wrong but he got the reason wrong. It is wrong because to begin with Adam must have had a sin nature because he sinned when he ate the fruit. Next the assumption is, by most, that Adam died spiritualy and that kind of death passed upon all men when in truth Adam and humanity were kept from the Tree of Life and this is how death passed upon all men. The implication (yet there is no direct Scripture to back this up) is that knowledge of good and evil was passed upon humanity throught Adam.

The need for a sin sacrifice to come from a blood line whose father was not Adam was to insure that the flesh of the Saviour did not have a sin nature and therefore the substitutionary sacrifice would be valid.

[sandy whitelinger]

Originally Posted by sandy whitelinger

So I'll take then that you have no Scripture with which to make your point (post #79) that sin is anything more than something which man does and that it is not cosmic in the sense that it effects more than mankind. You seem to able only to offer a dictionaries word for it and nothing from the Word itself.

Well, Angellous?

[sandy whitelinger]

Originally Posted by sandy whitelinger

Well, Angellous?

Well, still no answer so I'll assume have none and go on. The death of Jesus satisfied a legal situation that called for a punishment. Jesus offered Himself as a substitutionary payment for the guilty and in no way was guilty of the actions of sin. Therefore He in no way had His flesh changed by the acceptance of becoming the scapegoat (sin) for mankind and subsequently needed no new body to replace His old one.

[Francine]

Originally Posted by sandy whitelinger

Well, still no answer so I'll assume have none and go on. The death of Jesus satisfied a legal situation that called for a punishment. Jesus offered Himself as a substitutionary payment for the guilty and in no way was guilty of the actions of sin. Therefore He in no way had His flesh changed by the acceptance of becoming the scapegoat (sin) for mankind and subsequently needed no new body to replace His old one.

Alternative explanation: By obeying his father even unto death on a cross, the Son of God pleased the Father infinitely more than Adam (and all of us) displeased God by sin. Thus he made satisfaction for the breach, rather than merely being an innocent bucket for God to quench the hot iron of his wrath.

[sandy whitelinger]

Originally Posted by Francine

Alternative explanation: By obeying his father even unto death on a cross, the Son of God pleased the Father infinitely more than Adam (and all of us) displeased God by sin. Thus he made satisfaction for the breach, rather than merely being an innocent bucket for God to quench the hot iron of his wrath.

A total breach with scripture but an alternative explanation nonetheless.