Why don't we have the same opinions? (Jesus, follower, Holy Spirit)

[Arrow]

Originally Posted by Terrywoodenpic

Christian interpretation is a journey ... not a destination.

part of our problem with interpretation is that we have lost the oral story telling tradition.
People in biblical times were expert at it and could hear a story and know the meaning of it as applied to various contexts.
We on the other hand just read the words, and as if translating, come up with a meaning that might be unrelated to the context of the situation. Because this is so strange to us, we say it needs the help of the Holy spirit to receive an interpretation.
what it really needs is the oral tradition we have lost.

Not that the Holy spirit can not help... but I was never taught he is here to provide a translation service. If he was, we would not even need for the bible to be written in our own language.

I guess i should limit what i am trying to get at. I would agree that there is some kind of boundary that is formed by a lack of knowledge of the original oral tradition. However, i think that as long as their is an adequate translation that the oral tradition should only play a small part. Even the disciples who lived with Jesus needed an explanation of what He was trying to say. Thus if the disciples needed Jesus to know the truth, then why would not we need Jesus in order to understand scripture? What I base this on is that Peter did not come to the conclusion that Jesus was the Christ, but that Jesus Himself revealed it to him. Thus no translation was necessary... What I mean by limiting what I am trying to get at is issues of doctrine. Sure oral tradition can lead to a little more insight, but we should still be able to get to a point where we all agree so that we are unified and not divided into multiple denominations.

However, like you said i might be overestimating the role of the Holy Spirit in which case i would be wrong.

[Arrow]

Originally Posted by Scuba Pete

Some people study the Scriptures for knowledge. They get what they are searching for.

Some people study the Scriptures for insight. They too get what they are searching for.

Few study the Scriptures to love more. They also get what they are searching for.

I Corinthians 8:1 Now about food sacrificed to idols: We know that we all possess knowledge. Knowledge puffs up, but love builds up. 2 The man who thinks he knows something does not yet know as he ought to know. 3 But the man who loves God is known by God. NIV

I don't know that I find this precept in the Scriptures, but it appears to me that the more you submit to the Spirit's will, the more that this will is revealed to you. There is a whole discussion on this in ! Corinthians 3. Here is the first part:

I Corinthians 3:1 Brothers, I could not address you as spiritual but as worldly—mere infants in Christ. 2 I gave you milk, not solid food, for you were not yet ready for it. Indeed, you are still not ready. 3 You are still worldly. For since there is jealousy and quarreling among you, are you not worldly? Are you not acting like mere men? 4 For when one says, "I follow Paul," and another, "I follow Apollos," are you not mere men? NIV

Now, if this doesn't sum up some men's quest to prove that they have the "one true church", I don't know what does.

The thing that I am trying to say though is that how can two people who are seeking God get two different answers from the Bible. For instance, how is it that some people think that baptism is required for salvation while others think that baptism is not required.

After thinking about what you have said though, perhaps i am giving to much credit to the starters of denominations. Meaning that instead of assuming that their hearts were pure when they read the Bible they were really looking for a way to be right about something. I do like your second reference though because it would lead me to believe that perhaps the real problem is that we have just been getting ahead of ourselves. For instance, maybe while we were focusing on whether or not we should make baptism a requirement we really should have been focusing on unity.

[Seyorni]

I'd be interested in the interpretation of a truly dispassionate reader, say, an LGM from Mars.

Interpretations from people raised with Christian, Jewish or Muslim traditions are tainted by the cultural values absorbed with mother's milk.

[Scuba Pete]

Originally Posted by Seyorni

Interpretations from people raised with Christian, Jewish or Muslim traditions are tainted by the cultural values absorbed with mother's milk.

You say this as if it's a BAD thing. Diversity is GREAT. It makes life interesting and fun!

Paul had a wonderful attitude about SOME diversity.

Philippians 1:15 It is true that some preach Christ out of envy and rivalry, but others out of goodwill. 16 The latter do so in love, knowing that I am put here for the defense of the gospel. 17 The former preach Christ out of selfish ambition, not sincerely, supposing that they can stir up trouble for me while I am in chains. 18 But what does it matter? The important thing is that in every way, whether from false motives or true, Christ is preached. And because of this I rejoice. NIV

But what is unity? I will again turn to Paul for this:

Philippians 2:1 If you have any encouragement from being united with Christ, if any comfort from his love, if any fellowship with the Spirit, if any tenderness and compassion, 2 then make my joy complete by being like-minded, having the same love, being one in spirit and purpose. 3 Do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit, but in humility consider others better than yourselves. 4 Each of you should look not only to your own interests, but also to the interests of others. 5 Your attitude should be the same as that of Christ Jesus:
6 Who, being in very nature God,
did not consider equality with God something to be grasped,
7 but made himself nothing,
taking the very nature of a servant,
being made in human likeness.
8 And being found in appearance as a man,
he humbled himself
and became obedient to death—
even death on a cross!
9 Therefore God exalted him to the highest place
and gave him the name that is above every name,
10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11 and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father. NIV

How often do we concentrate on OUR feelings and what WE want, rather than put the needs of others ahead of our own. Being a SERVANT to others is the best way to worship God. But then, this necessitates a submission to the Spirit of God so that we may be a living sacrifice.

[Katzpur]

Originally Posted by Arrow

A) How can people who seek God get different answers from seemingly the same source?

I think that the majority of people who read the Bible have been told what it says before they ever bother to open it. Example: The Bible tells us that we are created in God's image. Most of us believe we know what that means before we see it on the printed page.

B) Why are we so prideful to say that everything we read and interpret must be fact as long as we have a group of similar thinkers behind us.

I think pride is part of what it means to be human. We all desperately want to be right. It's very frustrating to think that there are always going to be things we don't understand and answers we don't know. We feel safer insisting that we know it all.

C) As fellow brothers and sisters in Christ why do we put up with it?

I don't know. It certainly isn't because He told us to.

D) Or maybe I am wrong and there is a need for denominations.

Obviously, a unified Christian Church would be the ideal. Paul essentially said that without the same organizational structure and authority that existed in the Church Jesus Christ established, we would be "as children, tossed about by every wind of doctrine."

E) I would say that I was hypocritical in this thread except that I am trying really hard not to not be so pig headed. My non-denominationalism is more of I am just a follower of Christ. The things that I hold to be absolutely true are the things that pretty much every denomination agrees on.

And the things they agree on are probably the most important things anyway.

F) I wanted to know everyone else's thoughts

Well, those are mind, in a nutshell. I could elaborate, but I'm not sure you're looking for lengthy answers at this point.

[Sonic247]

Well first of all let me just say that I believe the Bible makes it clear both that it's the Spirit that "leads us into all truth" and that Christians should have their "hearts knit together in love." But at the same time there is a point that seperation over major doctrines is neccassary. For instance prayer to saints, this is totally unscriptural; prayer should only be made to God, there is "one mediator between God and man, the man Christ Jesus." If Christians cannot take one side on an issue like that then separation is neccassary.

[Katzpur]

Originally Posted by Sonic247

Well first of all let me just say that I believe the Bible makes it clear both that it's the Spirit that "leads us into all truth" and that Christians should have their "hearts knit together in love." But at the same time there is a point that seperation over major doctrines is neccassary. For instance prayer to saints, this is totally unscriptural; prayer should only be made to God, there is "one mediator between God and man, the man Christ Jesus." If Christians cannot take one side on an issue like that then separation is neccassary.

I can agree with you on the issue of prayers to saints. On the other hand, I'm sure any Roman Catholic or Orthodox Christian could explain why they pray to saints and don't believe that this practice is unscriptural at all. I'm sure you would find many of my beliefs unscriptural, whereas I find them totally scriptural. We all interpret things differently, and we all feel justified in believing as we do.

[Seyorni]

Originally Posted by Katzpur

I think that the majority of people who read the Bible have been told what it says before they ever bother to open it.

An excellent point, Katzpur.

I think all societies interpret scripture to reflect and uphold societal values. People pick and choose passages, emphasizing some, ignoring or interpreting away others. As the culture changes, over the years, so do the passages emphasized.
Thus, religion is a product more of culture than scripture. The Book is only used to support current social values.