Why have Christians forgotten the fourth Commandment? (Earth, exodus, bible)

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Originally Posted by rstrats

9-10ths Penguin,

re: "...because Jesus was sinless, and the days of the week are supposedly undisturbed from Gospel times to now, that what Jesus called the Sabbath must be the true Sabbath, because otherwise He would have violated the commandment and hence not be sinless... rstrats, is that a fair description of your argument?"

Yes it is.

Though the Pharisees claimed that Jesus violated the Law of the Sabbath. The Gospel certainly describes Jesus doing things that seem to violate the letter of the Law. If, as you and d.n.irvin seem to be implying, violating the letter of the Law is sinful, then how can you say that Jesus was sinless?

If He is sinless as you claim, then doesn't this imply that your interpretation of how the Law should be applied is faulty?

Originally Posted by d.n.irvin

Ultimately, I don't have to prove -all the Bible tells me to do is "Believe" but for me personally, there is enough evidence of the "7day literal Creation" and the "Flood"

Care to share this evidence with the rest of us?

Originally Posted by d.n.irvin

What more proof do you need than the Bible itself -The Word of God. You know, the Bible says that, the reason most people will be "Lost" -will not be because they are exceptionally wicked, ["For all have sinned"] -But because of their "unbelief."

External evidence would be handy if you care about avoiding circular reasoning, or about convincing others.

[d.n.irvin]

Originally Posted by 9-10ths_Penguin

Though the Pharisees claimed that Jesus violated the Law of the Sabbath. The Gospel certainly describes Jesus doing things that seem to violate the letter of the Law. If, as you and d.n.irvin seem to be implying, violating the letter of the Law is sinful, then how can you say that Jesus was sinless?

If He is sinless as you claim, then doesn't this imply that your interpretation of how the Law should be applied is faulty? How so?

Care to share this evidence with the rest of us?

The Seventh Day Sabbath -is evidence of Gods Creative Power- His memorial that He is ultimately in control of this world. Whatever is good enough for Christ to believe -is good enough for me. the Greek philosophers of Christ day presented an alternate creation theory also. Solomon says "there is nothing" New" under the sun"

External evidence would be handy if you care about avoiding circular reasoning, or about convincing others.
You know the Bible says in the Last days, Christ is coming for a people that have "Internal evidence" That He is Lord.

Besides, convincing you, is the work of the Holy Spirit- I can only state what the Bible says - and don't want to be construed with or get in trouble for "Proselytizing"

[Popeyesays]

It seems to me that IF the ten commandments were unalterable, then Jesus, Himself, would not have given an eleventh commandment.

13:33 Little children, yet a little while I am with you. Ye shall seek me: and as I said unto the Jews, Whither I go, ye cannot come; so now I say to you.
13:34 A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.
13:35 By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.
(King James Bible, John)

Regards,
Scott

[Aqualung]

Originally Posted by Popeyesays

It seems to me that IF the ten commandments were unalterable, then Jesus, Himself, would not have given an eleventh commandment.

13:33 Little children, yet a little while I am with you. Ye shall seek me: and as I said unto the Jews, Whither I go, ye cannot come; so now I say to you.
13:34 A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.
13:35 By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.
(King James Bible, John)

Regards,
Scott

Now that's just silly. That's like saying that it's obvious that one can take sugar out of a recipe for cake because a recipe for Mexican Pork Chops includes salsa.

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Originally Posted by d.n.irvin

The Pharisees "claimed" that Christ did a lot of things He did not do. ? And Christ reproved them every time.
So I my question to you is -who do you believe? "Jesus" or "Men" (the Pharisees)

Let's look at what the Bible says:

Exodus 31:14-15:

" 'Observe the Sabbath, because it is holy to you. Anyone who desecrates it must be put to death; whoever does any work on that day must be cut off from his people. For six days, work is to be done, but the seventh day is a Sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD. Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day must be put to death.

Matthew 12:1:

At that time Jesus went through the grainfields on the Sabbath. His disciples were hungry and began to pick some heads of grain and eat them.

Do you consider picking grain to be a form of work?

Because the Gospel clearly describes Jesus violating the letter of the Law regarding the Sabbath, even if He didn't violate its spirit. In this thread, you have implied that not following an extremely legalistic interpretation of scripture is sinful. Jesus is described as not following an extremely legalistic interpretation of scripture. Jesus being sinless is incompatible with your interpretation of scripture. Either Jesus sinned or you got things wrong.

Please don't take me for being rude, but the misunderstanding here seems to be related to reading and comprehension or lack there of.

I agree, though not likely in the way that you intended that statement.

In the old testament, reference is made 126 times to The Sabbath, and all these text conspire harmoniously in voicing the will of God commanded the Seventh Day to be kept, because God Himself first kept it, making it obligatory on ALL as 'a perpetual covenant.' Nor can we imagine any one foolhardy enough to question the identity of Saturday with the Sabbath or Seventh Day, seeing that the people of Israel have been keeping the Saturday from the giving of the Law, A.M. 2514 to A.D. 1893, a period of 3383 years..." [ 1: note the calendar units are different from today's standard; 2: in 1992, it is 3,482 years]

I asked for evidence of a 7-day creation and a global flood.

You know the Bible says in the Last days, Christ is coming for a people that have "Internal evidence" That He is Lord.

I'll take that as meaning "sorry, I don't have any real evidence."

The Bible tells us that "now we see through a glass darkly" Christians will wait on the Lord for vindication -He will reveal the secrets of this world in His due season - not ours

That same passage says that "now we know in part and we prophesy in part"... but you seem to be claiming that you have certain knowledge and full prophecy.

Besides, convincing you, is the work of the Holy Spirit- I can only state what the Bible says - and don't want to be construed with or get in trouble for "Proselytizing"

Makes me wonder what you're trying to accomplish in this thread, then, if you aren't interested in convincing people.

[Popeyesays]

Originally Posted by Aqualung

Now that's just silly. That's like saying that it's obvious that one can take sugar out of a recipe for cake because a recipe for Mexican Pork Chops includes salsa.

Please note that I consider the Ten Commandments pretty GOLDEN. They are the best ethical behavior rolled into a short concise list.

However, I would point out that Moses was empowered by God to teach the Ten Commandments, and if another Prophet of equal authority chooses to alter or modify, or add to the list of TEN, then that Prophet either has the authoirty or not.

There is no middle ground.

Jesus took the authority, acted on it and specifically gave "another commandment".

I would also point out that in the Old Testament there are not just TEN Commandments, there are some 600+ commandments. Some of those are only applicable to men, some to women, some to the priesthood which no longer exists.

If one is dead set upon following the ten commandments without interpreting them, where do they have the right to ignore the other 600?

Regards,
Scott

[Aqualung]

Originally Posted by Popeyesays

Please note that I consider the Ten Commandments pretty GOLDEN. They are the best ethical behavior rolled into a short concise list.

However, I would point out that Moses was empowered by God to teach the Ten Commandments, and if another Prophet of equal authority chooses to alter or modify, or add to the list of TEN, then that Prophet either has the authoirty or not.

There is no middle ground.

Jesus took the authority, acted on it and specifically gave "another commandment".

I would also point out that in the Old Testament there are not just TEN Commandments, there are some 600+ commandments. Some of those are only applicable to men, some to women, some to the priesthood which no longer exists.

If one is dead set upon following the ten commandments without interpreting them, where do they have the right to ignore the other 600?

Regards,
Scott

exactly, but you are stating that because Jesus added to the ten that the took away from them (because we no longer need to follow the sabbath day rules).