Did Paul Invent Christ? (Jesus, ritual, gospel, tradition, beliefs)

[Sunstone]

To what extent, if any, did Paul invent Christ?

Assuming that to some extent at least, Paul invented Christ, then what sources (including his own experience, traditions, philosophies, etc.) did Paul draw upon in inventing Christ?

[doppelgänger]

Originally Posted by Sunstone

To what extent, if any, did Paul invent Christ?

Assuming that to some extent at least, Paul invented Christ, then what sources (including his own experience, traditions, philosophies, etc.) did Paul draw upon in inventing Christ?

It's really hard to tell because the evidence is scarce. The trail goes pretty much dead once you get back into the first century and Paul's letters can be interpreted many ways. Though it does appear even from Paul's letters that he was preceded in a more rigidly Jewish version of what he was teaching by a group in Jerusalem (for whom he doesn't particularly care). Where they teaching the the Christ we know from Paul's writings? There's no direct evidence of what they were teaching other than Paul's comments about them and the Book of Acts, which is itself highly doubtful as an historical record.

[angellous_evangellous]

Originally Posted by doppelgänger

It's really hard to tell because the evidence is scarce.

It depends on the scope of how precise you want to be. Paul didn't mention Christ very often, but he did present himself as an expounder of the teachings of Christ. In this sense, the entire Pauline corpus can be compared to the teachings of Christ in the four Gospels. Seen in this light, the evidence is not so scarce.

The trail goes pretty much dead once you get back into the first century and Paul's letters can be interpreted many ways.

But that's the only trail we have.

Though it does appear even from Paul's letters that he was preceded in a more rigidly Jewish version of what he was teaching by a group in Jerusalem (for whom he doesn't particularly care). Where they teaching the the Christ we know from Paul's writings? There's no direct evidence of what they were teaching other than Paul's comments about them and the Book of Acts, which is itself highly doubtful as an historical record.

Yeah, you pretty much nailed it. Galatians 2 is compared with Acts 15. Viola.

I will add that the most striking similarity to me between Acts, the Gospels, and the Pauline corpus is their unified teachings regarding the eating of food and the relationship between Gentiles and Jews. Some compromise has to be made in order for Gentiles and Jews to fellowship together, and the entire corpus forces Jews to do all the giving, even in Acts.

[ChristineES]

Paul has some of his own teachings mixed in with Jesus' teachings. The thing is, if it wasn't Jesus who originally taught it, Paul did not say that it was taught by Jesus. So they weren't really false teachings, they were just beliefs that Paul had from before.

[logician]

The Christ that Paul(whoever he was) invented is different than the Christ that most Christian denominations worship. Paul didn't believe in a physical Christ, only a spiritual one.

[angellous_evangellous]

Originally Posted by logician

The Christ that Paul(whoever he was) invented is different than the Christ that most Christian denominations worship. Paul didn't believe in a physical Christ, only a spiritual one.

I disagree. Paul's belief in a physical Christ is fairly evident in his letters. What stands out to me is Christ's interaction with the disciples in 1 Corinthians 11 as well as Paul's description of the death and resurrection of Christ in Romans. In Romans, the literal life, death, and resurrection of Christ is critical to Paul's Christian teachings.

Now if you want to re-interpret Paul as believing in a "spiritual" Christ because you believe that the resurrection is impossible, then it's you who believe thusly. For Paul, Christ is certainly a historical figure who lived, died, and rose again.

[logician]

Originally Posted by angellous_evangellous

I disagree. Paul's belief in a physical Christ is fairly evident in his letters. What stands out to me is Christ's interaction with the disciples in 1 Corinthians 11 as well as Paul's description of the death and resurrection of Christ in Romans. In Romans, the literal life, death, and resurrection of Christ is critical to Paul's Christian teachings.

Now if you want to re-interpret Paul as believing in a "spiritual" Christ because you believe that the resurrection is impossible, then it's you who believe thusly. For Paul, Christ is certainly a historical figure who lived, died, and rose again.

Really, give one scripture actually attributed to Paul where he uses an example of Jesus' life for a lesson.