The Tree of Life and Tree of Knowledge (ritual, Eden)

[MidnightBlue]

Originally Posted by nutshell

Literalists are funny.

They did die when they partook of the fruit - they were cast out of the Garden and separated from God (a spiritual death).

People are funny when they try to rationalize their scriptures, too. Genesis doesn't say a word about spiritual death -- and again, unless God said spiritual death, he was deliberately misleading them.

[Comprehend]

Originally Posted by MidnightBlue

People are funny when they try to rationalize their scriptures, too. Genesis doesn't say a word about spiritual death -- and again, unless God said spiritual death, he was deliberately misleading them.

what is funny is that you would assume that every communication between God and Adam is recorded in Genesis. It isn't a court transcript.

[Prometheus]

Originally Posted by Comprehend

nope. As the story illustrates, God will not allow himself to be wrong.

Essentially what God is saying here is this: I said if they ate the fruit, ______ would happen. Since they ate the fruit, I must ensure that ______ actually happens. There was no chance that God was going to mess up or forget.

What, then, if they had eaten of the tree of life first?

[joeboonda]

Romans 5

Peace and Joy

1Therefore, since we have been justified through faith, we[a]have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, 2through whom we have gained access by faith into this grace in which we now stand. And we[b] rejoice in the hope of the glory of God. 3Not only so, but we[c] also rejoice in our sufferings, because we know that suffering produces perseverance; 4perseverance, character; and character, hope. 5And hope does not disappoint us, because God has poured out his love into our hearts by the Holy Spirit, whom he has given us.

6You see, at just the right time, when we were still powerless, Christ died for the ungodly. 7Very rarely will anyone die for a righteous man, though for a good man someone might possibly dare to die. 8But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.
9Since we have now been justified by his blood, how much more shall we be saved from God's wrath through him! 10For if, when we were God's enemies, we were reconciled to him through the death of his Son, how much more, having been reconciled, shall we be saved through his life! 11Not only is this so, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.

Death Through Adam, Life Through Christ

12Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all men, because all sinned— 13for before the law was given, sin was in the world. But sin is not taken into account when there is no law. 14Nevertheless, death reigned from the time of Adam to the time of Moses, even over those who did not sin by breaking a command, as did Adam, who was a pattern of the one to come.
15But the gift is not like the trespass. For if the many died by the trespass of the one man, how much more did God's grace and the gift that came by the grace of the one man, Jesus Christ, overflow to the many! 16Again, the gift of God is not like the result of the one man's sin: The judgment followed one sin and brought condemnation, but the gift followed many trespasses and brought justification. 17For if, by the trespass of the one man, death reigned through that one man, how much more will those who receive God's abundant provision of grace and of the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man, Jesus Christ.
18Consequently, just as the result of one trespass was condemnation for all men, so also the result of one act of righteousness was justification that brings life for all men. 19For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous. 20The law was added so that the trespass might increase. But where sin increased, grace increased all the more, 21so that, just as sin reigned in death, so also grace might reign through righteousness to bring eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

[MidnightBlue]

Originally Posted by Comprehend

At the time there was God, Adam and Eve.... I think going by God's time might have been the norm but I don't know.

If the Genesis account went by God's time, it would have said that Adam lived .93 days, not 930 years. The fact that Genesis was later bound together with a pseudepigraphical letter that uses the figure of speech "one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day" in no way indicates that to God a thousand years equals a day, much less that the writer of Genesis would have had any such thing in mind.

In fact, if you want to carry such a literal view of Second Peter over to Genesis, it would make equal sense to say that God meant they would die within a fourth of a second after they ate it.

"Peter" is not giving us a formula for converting to "God's time," he's making the point that God is beyond time.

[MidnightBlue]

Originally Posted by Comprehend

what is funny is that you would assume that every communication between God and Adam is recorded in Genesis. It isn't a court transcript.

Nevertheless, if I believed it were the word of God, I'd pay attention to what it says rather than insinuating ideas that aren't there into the text.

[MidnightBlue]

Originally Posted by nutshell

Is this what Quakers believe?

Sorry, I missed that. Quakers believe all kinds of things. There are Evangelical Quakers and Jewish Quakers and Pagan Quakers and Atheist Quakers, for example. You might as well ask, "Is that what humans believe?"

[Willamena]

Originally Posted by MidnightBlue

God was wrong, or lying, either way. He said they'd die the same day they ate of it, and they didn't.

Another interpretation of that could be that on that day that they ate the fruit, death would become assured (for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die). It needn't be a lie unless you insist on a literlized, modernized interpretation.