I am the good shepherd; I know my sheep and my sheep know me (Jesus, ritual)

[*Paul*]

Originally Posted by Katzpur

We believe that the Nephite and the Lamanite people whose story is told in the Book of Mormon were the ancestors of some of today's Native Americans. They were descended from Joseph (son of Israel) through the lineage of Ephraim and Manasseh. Consequently, they were from the House of Israel. They were the "other sheep not of [this] fold," that Jesus referred to in John 10:16. They literally heard His voice, as opposed to just His words, as taught by someone else.

Ezekiel 37:16 and 19 refer to two separate records that would be joined as one. These verses state, "Moreover, thou son of man, take thee one stick, and write upon it, For Judah, and for the children of Israel his companions: then take another stick, and write upon it, For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim, and for all the house of Israel his companions.... Say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel his fellows, and will put them with him, even with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they shall be one in mine hand."

We believe that these two records are the volumes of scripture known as the Bible (from the tribe of Judah) and the Book of Mormon (from the tribe of Joseph).

(In the New English Bible, by the way, the passage from Ezekiel is translated in such a way that makes this even more clear: "These were the words of the Lord to me: Man, take one leaf of a wooden tablet and write on it, 'Judah and his associates of Israel.' Then take another leaf and write on it, 'Joseph, the leaf of Ephraim and all his associates of Israel.' Now bring the two together to form one tablet; they will be a folding tablet in your hand. When your fellow-countrymen ask you to tell them what you mean by this, say to them, These are the words of the Lord God: I am taking the leaf of Joseph, which belongs to Ephraim and his associates of Israel, and joining it to the leaf of Judah. Thus I shall make them one tablet, and they shall be one in my hand. The leaves on which you write shall be visible in your hand for all to see."

Katzpur I don't mean to be rude but that interpretation of that passage is awful, the subject matter is about the nation of Israel being one at some future point: look at the context:
14And shall put my Spirit in you, and ye shall live, and I shall place you in your own land; then shall ye know that I the Lord have spoken it, and performed it, saith the Lord.

The nation and the land are the subject matter

God even tells us Himself what the interpretation is:

18:And when the children of thy people shall speak unto thee, saying, Wilt thou not show us what thou meanest by these?

19:Say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I will take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel his fellows, and will put them with him, even with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they shall be one in mine hand.
20:And the sticks whereon thou writest shall be in thine hand before their eyes. 21:And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land;
22:And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all; and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms anymore at all;

[Katzpur]

Originally Posted by *Paul*

Katzpur I don't mean to be rude but that interpretation of that passage is awful...

Thanks a bunch, Paul. There's nothing like being blunt, huh?

The subject matter is about the nation of Israel being one at some future point: look at the context...

I am looking at the context, and I agree that the message of this chapter is that Israel will one day inherit the land that was promised them. They will be gathered together and cleansed. Christ will reign over them and they will receive His gospel. I'm not sure why you skipped over verses 16 and 20, which are clearly not a reference to the land or to the people per se, but to the written record of their history and dealings with God. The Hebrew word "etz" used in Ezekiel 37 is often translated as "stick." It is, however, not the usual word for "stick," which is frequently interpreted to mean "scroll," but actually means a wooden tablet. Regardless of whether the word "stick," is interpreted as a scroll or a tablet, verses 16 and 20 refer to a written record of these two great nations which will eventually be one. As "another testament of Jesus Christ," the "stick of Joseph" (which, according to verse 19 is "in the hand of Ephraim") will be combined with the "stick of Judah" to be "one in [God's] hand."

I'm just curious, why is it every Evangelical Christian on RF feels compelled to post every scripture they quote in bright red or blue and in a huge font? Is there some reason behind this?

[*Paul*]

Originally Posted by Katzpur

Thanks a bunch, Paul. There's nothing like being blunt, huh?

I am looking at the context, and I agree that the message of this chapter is that Israel will one day inherit the land that was promised them. They will be gathered together and cleansed. Christ will reign over them and they will receive His gospel. I'm not sure why you skipped over verses 16 and 20, which are clearly not a reference to the land or to the people per se, but to the written record of their history and dealings with God. The Hebrew word "etz" used in Ezekiel 37 is often translated as "stick." It is, however, not the usual word for "stick," which is frequently interpreted to mean "scroll," but actually means a wooden tablet. Regardless of whether the word "stick," is interpreted as a scroll or a tablet, verses 16 and 20 refer to a written record of these two great nations which will eventually be one. As "another testament of Jesus Christ," the "stick of Joseph" (which, according to verse 19 is "in the hand of Ephraim") will be combined with the "stick of Judah" to be "one in [God's] hand."

I'm just curious, why is it every Evangelical Christian on RF feels compelled to post every scripture they quote in bright red or blue and in a huge font? Is there some reason behind this?

I only skipped the other verses for time as they say nothing that changes the message. Whatever the symbol God is using, whether it is scrolls or sticks is irrelevant when He tells us what He means by it.

Incidently Joseph Smith translated it as stick too:
16Moreover, thou son of man, take thee one stick and write upon it, for Judah, and for the children of Israel his companions; then take another stick, and write upon it, for Joseph, the stick of Ephraim, and for all the house of Israel his companions;
Joseph Smith Translation

It reminds me of when the Muslims try to say that "another comforter" means Mohammed even though Jesus tells us exactly who this other Comforter is.

I hadn't realised that we all post scripture in a different colour and in bold. I usually post scripture in black bold but since I lost all of my favourite website bookmarks I have lost my usual KJV web page so I am using another one. The reason I do so is so that it visually stands out from my own words and comments.

[Katzpur]

Originally Posted by *Paul*

I only skipped the other verses for time as they say nothing that changes the message. Whatever the symbol God is using, whether it is scrolls or sticks is irrelevant when He tells us what He means by it.

To each his own. I happen to believe it is extremely relevant.