what was the orginal sin? (punishment, Creator, creation, genesis)

[Faust]

The disobedience argument falls apart when you consider God's statement,"they will become like us". This expresses some level of concern about the advancement of the created humans to a level akin to that of God or gods.

Sounds like the attainment of knowledge to me guys.

[Ceridwen018]

what exactly is wrong with wanting to be like God? It's like kids trying to imitate their parents...

That's a good point. Also, Logos, how can you be so sure that they were trying specifically to be like god, vs. trying to attain wisdom? It was the tree of knowledge after all.

[Ernestine]

Adam and Eve had one SIMPLE command to follow. Eve allowed herself to become enticed and then aided Adam in sinning against God. There's nothing wrong with wanting to be like God or to emulate his ways. When they ate the fruti, it was their way to assert independence from God. God has known it all along, but we still have not figured it out that we cannot run this world witout him--we have sickness, death, disease, hatred, starvation, fear of nuclear war, greed, air pollution, water pollution, immorality...should I go on? We could have been spared all of this had they just listened.

[standing_on_one_foot]

It's what kids are supposed to do, for crying out loud. I mean, you look at parent-child relationships where that independance doesn't occur...not always the healthiest of relationships, you know? And really, Adam and Eve were just kids.

You know, it's interesting to think about. As scared as I'm sure those two naked, fruit-munching ancestors of ours were, I kinda suspect that maybe, just maybe, they were kinda looking forward to leaving the garden, too. They're bound to have been curious about the world, after all...and do you think that maybe, just maybe, this was what God meant to happen? Of course, I tend to view the whole story as something of a metaphor for growing up (which, although it brings pain and loss of innocence and all, I am not inclined to believe is entirely a bad thing)...different ways of seeing it, I suppose. I don't think one way is right and the other's wrong, they're just quite different...

[painted wolf]

I would say that gulibility was the first sin... if Eve had not been so gullible than she would never have listened to the serpent.
Also Adam was gullible in that he listened to Eve.

wa:do

[robtex]

Originally Posted by Ernestine

Adam and Eve had one SIMPLE command to follow. Eve allowed herself to become enticed and then aided Adam in sinning against God. There's nothing wrong with wanting to be like God or to emulate his ways. When they ate the fruti, it was their way to assert independence from God. God has known it all along, but we still have not figured it out that we cannot run this world witout him--we have sickness, death, disease, hatred, starvation, fear of nuclear war, greed, air pollution, water pollution, immorality...should I go on? We could have been spared all of this had they just listened.

Ernestine are you saying that if Adam and Eve had not eaten the fruit than there would today be no sicknes, death disease, hatred, starvation, fear of nuclear war, greed, air pollution, water pollution, immorality ect ect?

[Jayhawker Soule]

Originally Posted by Ernestine

Adam and Eve had one SIMPLE command to follow. ...

In any civilized society, any parent who treated a child this way would would be held in the utmost of contempt. In any civilized society, any parent who would condemn a grandchild to pain and suffering for some youthful indiscretion of its parents would be despised as psychopathological.

And yet, through the wonders of ignorance and cognitive disconnect, we find people rationalizing the 'original sin' fable. You cheerfully worship such an ugly and vindictive God. It all strikes me as either immensely sad or intensely disgusting.

[linwood]

Originally Posted by Ernestine

Adam and Eve had one SIMPLE command to follow.

Not simple at all but it`s already been beaten to death here.

I`ll see if I can find the threads that debate it.

[logos]

Originally Posted by robtex

Ernestine are you saying that if Adam and Eve had not eaten the fruit than there would today be no sicknes, death disease, hatred, starvation, fear of nuclear war, greed, air pollution, water pollution, immorality ect ect?

I am not Ernestine, but I believe that is what he means to say. In the Catholic Church there is an entire theology on the first sin, sin, and the origins thereof. We are merely skimming the surface of what the Church believes with regard to Original Sin and sin in general. If you are interested I would recommend reading the Catechism of the Catholic Church, specifically, paragraphs 355 - 412. http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/__P1B.HTM

[logos]

Originally Posted by Deut. 32.8

And yet, through the wonders of ignorance and cognitive disconnect, we find people rationalizing the 'original sin' fable. You cheerfully worship such an ugly and vindictive God. It all strikes me as either immensely sad or intensely disgusting.

You will be in my prayers