Religious Education Forum  

Welcome to Religious Forums
Welcome Guest to ReligiousForums.com . You are currently not registered. When you become registered you will be able to interact with our large base of already registered users discussing topics. Some annoying Ads will also disappear when you register. Registering doesn't cost a thing and only takes a few seconds. We provide areas to chat and debate all World Religions. Please go to our register page!

Home Who's Online Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
Go Back   Religious Education Forum / Religious Topics / Religious Debates / Scriptural Debates / Biblical Debates
Sitemap Popular RF Forums REGISTER Search Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 03-29-2007, 04:42 PM
angellous_evangellous's Avatar
angellous_evangellous Online!
Religion: Christian
Title:pater familias
Prolific Poster Award:  - Issue reason: 10,000 posts Scholarship Award:  - Issue reason: This award has been given to your peers and is well deserved. Humor Award:  - Issue reason: This award has been given to you by your peers and is well deserved. Article Award:  - Issue reason:  
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: D/FW, TX
Gender: Male
Posts: 22,661
Frubals: 3736361
angellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whore
angellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whore
angellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whore
Default Biblical Sexual Ethics: Fornication

It is my understanding that pornia in the Greek refers to all forms of deviant sexual behavior. However, we should not define deviant behavior in our culture as the same for the first century.

The norm for sexual expression in the New Testament is heterosexual marriage. In the New Testament, we don't have to worry about the issues of polygamy and concubinage, but we do have to consider that the NT does not address major sexual ethical issues like sex with slaves, pederasty, incest, and sex with children - all of which usually do not threaten heterosexual marriage.

That is, married men could usually and legally have sex with other male slaves, boys, and children was usually anal, oral, or non-penetrative did not constitute adultery in the Greco-Roman context, and married Jewish men could have sex with anyone as well. Therefore, the silent treatment with regard to pederasty and sex with slaves is most alarming in the NT. Legally, marriage is strictly for the securing of a legal heir.

Adultery is very one-sided in the ancient world. The norm was that men could have sex with whomever they wanted to - and children and slaves (both male and female, and their children) were for the most part sexually available - and it was not considered "adultery." This is true for both the Torah and Roman law. There were some regulations and execptions.

One exception is that husbands and wives very often loved eachother and remained faithful to one another sexually, even though the man could usually do what he wanted. Another exception is one marriage contract found in Egypt dated in the second century BCE that contains rather painful stipulations for the man if he had sex with anyone else.
__________________
Obama loves Jesus - vote for the sake of Christ

Last edited by angellous_evangellous; 03-29-2007 at 04:50 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 03-29-2007, 08:01 PM
Sunstone's Avatar
Sunstone Offline
Religion: Girls On Trampolines!
Title:De diablo del fora
Above and Beyond Award:  - Issue reason: Link Exchange project Prolific Poster Award:  - Issue reason: 10,000 posts Creative Thread Award:  - Issue reason:  Humor Award:  - Issue reason:  
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Colorado, USA
Gender: Male
Posts: 26,117
Frubals: 5163394
Sunstone is a Frubal WhoreSunstone is a Frubal WhoreSunstone is a Frubal WhoreSunstone is a Frubal WhoreSunstone is a Frubal WhoreSunstone is a Frubal WhoreSunstone is a Frubal WhoreSunstone is a Frubal WhoreSunstone is a Frubal WhoreSunstone is a Frubal WhoreSunstone is a Frubal WhoreSunstone is a Frubal WhoreSunstone is a Frubal WhoreSunstone is a Frubal WhoreSunstone is a Frubal Whore
Sunstone is a Frubal WhoreSunstone is a Frubal WhoreSunstone is a Frubal WhoreSunstone is a Frubal WhoreSunstone is a Frubal WhoreSunstone is a Frubal WhoreSunstone is a Frubal WhoreSunstone is a Frubal WhoreSunstone is a Frubal WhoreSunstone is a Frubal WhoreSunstone is a Frubal WhoreSunstone is a Frubal Whore
Default

Are there many opinions on this? That is, do all scholars pretty much agree, or is there diversity of opinions on the subject of ancient sexual norms?
__________________
Then I came back from where I'd been.
My room, it looked the same -
but there was nothing left between
The Nameless and the name.
- Leonard Cohen.

Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 03-29-2007, 09:36 PM
angellous_evangellous's Avatar
angellous_evangellous Online!
Religion: Christian
Title:pater familias
Prolific Poster Award:  - Issue reason: 10,000 posts Scholarship Award:  - Issue reason: This award has been given to your peers and is well deserved. Humor Award:  - Issue reason: This award has been given to you by your peers and is well deserved. Article Award:  - Issue reason:  
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: D/FW, TX
Gender: Male
Posts: 22,661
Frubals: 3736361
angellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whore
angellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whore
angellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whore
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunstone View Post
Are there many opinions on this? That is, do all scholars pretty much agree, or is there diversity of opinions on the subject of ancient sexual norms?
Scholars don't agree on anything. It's our job to disagree.

Just as soon as we think we know something, we find out we need to tweak our knowledge, which is why we will always need scholars. It's a self-perpetuating business.

Anyway, I've known of that single papyrus leaf that legally requires the husband to remain sexually faithful to his wife for a few years - and so have several other folks. It is the only evidence in the Greco-Roman world of a male being sexually monogamous with his wife, as far as I know there is widespread agreement on this.

EDIT: In my opinion, Roman married men most likely had anything but vaginal sex with other people once he was married - any illigitimate children could endanger his estate.

Now we should consider that in the first century, it was pretty easy for a woman to divorce her husband, and sexual promiscuity could cause some serious problems for some men if they angered their wives.
__________________
Obama loves Jesus - vote for the sake of Christ

Last edited by angellous_evangellous; 03-29-2007 at 09:39 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 05-16-2007, 08:45 AM
angellous_evangellous's Avatar
angellous_evangellous Online!
Religion: Christian
Title:pater familias
Prolific Poster Award:  - Issue reason: 10,000 posts Scholarship Award:  - Issue reason: This award has been given to your peers and is well deserved. Humor Award:  - Issue reason: This award has been given to you by your peers and is well deserved. Article Award:  - Issue reason:  
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: D/FW, TX
Gender: Male
Posts: 22,661
Frubals: 3736361
angellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whore
angellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whore
angellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whore
Default

Examples which support my argument here are available in Lefkowitz and Fant's sourcebook.
__________________
Obama loves Jesus - vote for the sake of Christ
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 05-16-2007, 02:36 PM
ChristineES's Avatar
ChristineES Offline
Religion: Follower/Jesus(Y'shua)
Title:Tiggerism
Courtesy Award:  - Issue reason: This award has been given to you by your peers and is well deserved. Kindness Award:  - Issue reason: Your peers have nominated you for the kindness award, and it's well deserved. 
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: California, USA
Gender: Female
Posts: 4,755
Frubals: 2307047
ChristineES is a Frubal WhoreChristineES is a Frubal WhoreChristineES is a Frubal WhoreChristineES is a Frubal WhoreChristineES is a Frubal WhoreChristineES is a Frubal Whore
ChristineES is a Frubal WhoreChristineES is a Frubal WhoreChristineES is a Frubal WhoreChristineES is a Frubal WhoreChristineES is a Frubal WhoreChristineES is a Frubal WhoreChristineES is a Frubal WhoreChristineES is a Frubal WhoreChristineES is a Frubal WhoreChristineES is a Frubal WhoreChristineES is a Frubal Whore
ChristineES is a Frubal WhoreChristineES is a Frubal WhoreChristineES is a Frubal WhoreChristineES is a Frubal WhoreChristineES is a Frubal WhoreChristineES is a Frubal WhoreChristineES is a Frubal WhoreChristineES is a Frubal WhoreChristineES is a Frubal WhoreChristineES is a Frubal WhoreChristineES is a Frubal WhoreChristineES is a Frubal WhoreChristineES is a Frubal WhoreChristineES is a Frubal WhoreChristineES is a Frubal WhoreChristineES is a Frubal WhoreChristineES is a Frubal WhoreChristineES is a Frubal WhoreChristineES is a Frubal WhoreChristineES is a Frubal WhoreChristineES is a Frubal Whore
Default

I don't think that was true from God's view. King David was punished for sleeping with another's wife. (this is in I Kings)
Part of the Torah says that if a man and woman fornicate, they are bound by the law to be married. ( I can't remember whether this is in Leviticus or not, I hope you can take my word for it).
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 05-16-2007, 02:38 PM
angellous_evangellous's Avatar
angellous_evangellous Online!
Religion: Christian
Title:pater familias
Prolific Poster Award:  - Issue reason: 10,000 posts Scholarship Award:  - Issue reason: This award has been given to your peers and is well deserved. Humor Award:  - Issue reason: This award has been given to you by your peers and is well deserved. Article Award:  - Issue reason:  
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: D/FW, TX
Gender: Male
Posts: 22,661
Frubals: 3736361
angellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whore
angellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whore
angellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whore
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChristineES View Post
I don't think that was true from God's view. King David was punished for sleeping with another's wife. (this is in I Kings)
Part of the Torah says that if a man and woman fornicate, they are bound by the law to be married. ( I can't remember whether this is in Leviticus or not, I hope you can take my word for it).
That's a good point, but that wasn't in the first century, which is what the OP addresses.
__________________
Obama loves Jesus - vote for the sake of Christ
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 05-16-2007, 02:40 PM
angellous_evangellous's Avatar
angellous_evangellous Online!
Religion: Christian
Title:pater familias
Prolific Poster Award:  - Issue reason: 10,000 posts Scholarship Award:  - Issue reason: This award has been given to your peers and is well deserved. Humor Award:  - Issue reason: This award has been given to you by your peers and is well deserved. Article Award:  - Issue reason:  
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: D/FW, TX
Gender: Male
Posts: 22,661
Frubals: 3736361
angellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whore
angellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whore
angellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whore
Default

Also please note that the OP addresses only the definition of the word pornea and not how it is used in various contexts in the NT.
__________________
Obama loves Jesus - vote for the sake of Christ
Reply With Quote
Reply



Thread Tools
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode
Hybrid Mode