Are we the bride or the bodyof Christ? (Jesus, translation)

[astarath]

I think you would mean my wife, and we agree because as we are both Ebionites our ideals are practically identical. There are threads in which I agree and posts in which I find merit you can find them in my profile under the karma I have given. But where I do not see God I find error and confusion and so I discuss to clarify and find God once again in everything.

[Issabella]

astarath, just what are your beliefs?

[astarath]

Ebionite, I would be more than happy to answer this in a PM or a seperate thread. Or you could look up Ebionite in a search engine. I do not believe you will find another on this forum however as they are extremely rare.

[Issabella]

As a collector of rare objects, I find your statement fasination. DO pm me!

[Issabella]

The Ebionites were one of several such sects that originated in and around Palestine in the first centuries AD and included the Nazarenes and Elkasites. The name of the sect is from the Hebrew ebyonim, or ebionim (“the poor”); it was not founded, as later Christian writers stated, by a certain EbionLittle information exists on the Ebionites, and the surviving accounts are subject to considerable debate, since they are uniformly derived from the Ebionites' opponents. The first mention of the sect is in the works of the Christian theologian St. Irenaeus, notably in his Adversus haereses (Against Heresies; c. 180); other sources include the writings of Origen and St. Epiphanius of Constantia. The Ebionite movement may have arisen about the time of the destruction of the Jewish Temple in Jerusalem (AD 70). Its members evidently left Palestine to avoid persecution and settled in Transjordan (notably at Pella) and Syria and were later known to be in Asia Minor and Egypt. The sect seems to have existed into the 4th century.
Most of the features of Ebionite doctrine were anticipated in the teachings of the earlier Qumran sect, as revealed in the Dead Sea Scrolls. They believed in one God and taught that Jesus was the Messiah and was the true “prophet” mentioned in Deuteronomy 18:15. They rejected the Virgin Birth of Jesus, instead holding that he was the natural son of Joseph and Mary. The Ebionites believed Jesus became the Messiah because he obeyed the Jewish Law. They themselves faithfully followed the Law, although they removed what they regarded as interpolations in order to uphold their teachings, which included vegetarianism, holy poverty, ritual ablutions, and the rejection of animal sacrifices. The Ebionites also held Jerusalem in great veneration.
The early Ebionite literature is said to have resembled the Gospel According to Matthew, without the birth narrative. Evidently, they later found this unsatisfactory and developed their own literature—the Gospel of the Ebionites—although none of this text has survived.http://www.britannica.com/eb/article-9031860/Ebionite

[Issabella]

Wow, you all wrote your own Gosple? That would make it a cult yes?

[PHOTOTAKER]

Originally Posted by Issabella

Is Jesus comming back for his bride, or is he comming back for the "Church"?

Jesus has a bride, but its not us.
How do preachers get the idea that the church is the bride? Why do they falsely teach that "the bride" is to be without spot or wrinkle? Thats not talking about us at all.
I think this is one subject Christians never gave much thought to.

the church is the "bride" and Christ is the "bridegroom" we are the children... Just like an adoptions we take upon the name of Chirst, so christ become our father and the church becomes our mother rasing up there children, which is us. now we do have a father that is the father of our spirits he is God the Father or as some call him our heavenly father... in all we have two fathers our real father (God the Father/Heavenly father) and our adopted father (Jesus Christ) beside our father that rased us on earth...

[Bick]

Originally Posted by PHOTOTAKER

the church is the "bride" and Christ is the "bridegroom" we are the children... Just like an adoptions we take upon the name of Chirst, so christ become our father and the church becomes our mother rasing up there children, which is us. now we do have a father that is the father of our spirits he is God the Father or as some call him our heavenly father... in all we have two fathers our real father (God the Father/Heavenly father) and our adopted father (Jesus Christ) beside our father that rased us on earth...

Since I make up the church (ecclesia=called out assembly), how then could I be both mother and child?

Paul says we are SONS of God: Gal. 3:26-27: "You are all sons of God throught faith in Christ Jesus, for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus." NIV

And in Gal. 4:6-7: "Because you are sons, God sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, the spirit who calls out 'Abba, Father.' So you are no longer a slave, but a son, God has made you also an heir." NIV

Look at Eph. 1:3-6: "Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in the heavenly realms with every spiritual blessing in Christ. For He chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love he predestined us to be his adopted sons through Christ Jesus, in accordance with his good will,..."

IMO, since in Christ there is no 'male nor female', being a 'son' is a designation of 'position', for we are now heirs of God and joint-heirs with Christ.

Never is the church/body called 'the bride of Christ'.

Bick

[PHOTOTAKER]

Originally Posted by Bick

Since I make up the church (ecclesia=called out assembly), how then could I be both mother and child?

Paul says we are SONS of God: Gal. 3:26-27: "You are all sons of God throught faith in Christ Jesus, for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus." NIV

And in Gal. 4:6-7: "Because you are sons, God sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, the spirit who calls out 'Abba, Father.' So you are no longer a slave, but a son, God has made you also an heir." NIV

Look at Eph. 1:3-6: "Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in the heavenly realms with every spiritual blessing in Christ. For He chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love he predestined us to be his adopted sons through Christ Jesus, in accordance with his good will,..."

IMO, since in Christ there is no 'male nor female', being a 'son' is a designation of 'position', for we are now heirs of God and joint-heirs with Christ.

Never is the church/body called 'the bride of Christ'.

Bick

you really need to learn something of symbolism... the church as the mother is a symbol of being born agin only though the church with a person of having authority can a person be born agin... christ is the father that made it possible though the atonement so the church can do her job... how you are a child is the product of what the church represents give you and i and anyone who believes a way to return to heaven... remember the Jewish community is very symbolic to teach truths...

to break it down to modern terms: the church is the gateway for the atonement of Christ to work with the Children of God on earth.

in another parable the bride is us and the bridegroom is Christ in the parable of the wise and foolish virgins, this is used in many way to discribe the relationship between differnt teachings.

[Bick]

I've found that it is harder to 'unlearn' than to learn. During my early days as a Christian, I always heard that we, the church, are the 'bride of Christ'. And there were a number of analogies used to illustrate this.

But, in later years, after learning to use a concordance, lexicon, and other tools; and being extra careful in my studying, I realized the 'bride of the lamb' was made up of most of the believing Israelites and proselytes starting with Jesus earthly ministry.

I'll lay out the scriptures and just give the thought behind them, rather than quote the whole verse, because of space.

In John 3:29, John the Baptist, upon hearing that many were going to Jesus, says "The bride belongs to the bridegroom. The friend who attends the bridegroom waits and listens for him, and is full of joy when he hears the bridegroom's voice."
COMMENT: John, by the Spirit, identifies those believers as 'the bride', and Jesus as the 'bridegroom'; while he calls himself 'the friend who attends the bridegroom.'

In Matt. 9:15, Jesus says, 'Can the wedding guests mourn as long as the bridegroom is with them?" He answered John's disciples who asked 'why Jesus disciples didn't fast.'
He called this special group of disciples "wedding guests."

Mark 2:19 and Luke 5:34-35 say esentially the same thing.

Some good questions now might be, 'Where and when will the marriage feast take place?' I believe we are told. It will take place a reasonably short time after Christ's Second Coming to the earth; and will take place in the restored Jerusalem.

The OT believers, especially Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, will be at the great feast which must be on the earth, for believing Israelites, who have been scattered, will come from east and west and sit at the table with the above in the kingdom of heaven. See Matt. 8:11-12.

In Luke 13:28, Jesus warns there will be unbelieving Israelites in the kingdom, who will not be invited to the glorious banquet, and they will weep and gnash their teeth.

In Matt. 22:1-14, Jesus says the kingdom of heaven is like a king who prepared a wedding banquet for his son. There are, I'm sure, a number of interpretations; Mine is: the king in God, the son is Jesus, and 'those invited' but weren't interested, because they didn't know the Son are unbelieving Israelites. At the wedding banquet in the kingdom, those unbelieving Israelites who will be alive on the earth, will not be apart of the celebration. But many of the 'common folk' will be invited and given wedding garments.

In Matt. 24 and 25, Jesus tells of the destruction of the temple and Jerusalem, the sign of His coming and the end of the age. He also likens the kingdom to many parables. While parables are metaphors, i believe they illustrate trues.
The parable of the ten virgins ilustrates they should be ready to meet the bridegroom. And this is on the earth.

Rev. 19:7-9, RSV, "Hallelujah! For the Lord our God the Almighty reigns. Let us exult and give him the glory, for the marriage of the Lamb has come, and HIs bride has made herself ready; it was granted her to be clothed with fine linen, bright and pure...And the angel said to me, 'Write this: Blessed are those who are invited to the marriage supper of the Lamb."

COMMENT: While the events in this chapter may not be in the exact order, chronologically, I believe the marriage of the Lamb has to take place after Christ's return in power and great glory to rescue Israel and defeat her enemies.
This will take place at the beginning of the millennial reign of Christ.
Evidently, this close relationship of the Messiah and believing Israelites (and probably proselytes), figured as a bridegroom and his bride, will continue all through the millennium, which means the number in the 'bride' would be huge.

The last verses relating to 'bride and bridegroom' are as follows"

Rev. 21:2, "And I saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband."
COMMENT: John, in his vision, saw New Jerusalem adorned, beautifully decked out, as a bride adorned for her husband. A figure of speech, "as"....

Then in Rev. 21:9-10, he definitely identifies the New Jerusalem as 'the bride, the wife of the Lamb'.
IMO, the New Jerusalem is the abode of all the believing Israelites alive at the end of the millennium, who make up the 'bride-wife' of the Lamb, and will now enjoy the glories of the New Jerusalem on the New Earth.

Bick