By Their Fruits You Shall Recognize Them (Jesus, crucified, translation)

[beloved57]

Originally Posted by Katzpur

No, I think I'm going to mind actually. I got that from numerous posts in which you have stated that God has already decided who He is going to save and who He is going to damn and there is absolutely nothing we can do to change His mind. You tell me how that could be interpreted in any other way than I have interpreted it.

Oh, thats right, those who God saves and those who He damns is a settled issue before you or I was ever born. If God did not choose, elect you to be saved, you are on your way to a christless eternity regardless of your behaviour.

[Katzpur]

Originally Posted by beloved57

Oh, thats right, those who God saves and those who He damns is a settled issue before you or I was ever born. If God did not choose, elect you to be saved, you are on your way to a christless eternity regardless of your behaviour.

And this is exactly why I stated that it sounds to me as if a person can behave anyway he wants and it won't matter. You laughed and said, "How did you get that from what I have said?" If my behavior is exemplary and I'm not among His chosen, I'll be damned anyway. If I live a wicked and depraved life but am among His chosen, I'll be saved anyway. I guess I was right in how I understood you after all.

[beloved57]

And this is exactly why I stated that it sounds to me as if a person can behave anyway he wants and it won't matter. You laughed and said, "How did you get that from what I have said?" If my behavior is exemplary and I'm not among His chosen, I'll be damned anyway.

Thats right. I know athiest and buddah priest and christian scienctist with exemplanary behaviour but they are not believers in christ. Heck the apostle paul prior to his conversion said he lived a exemplanary life

phil 3


4Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more:
5Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee; 6Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.

See you believe in salvation by good behaviour, you are not a believer !

If I live a wicked and depraved life but am among His chosen, I'll be saved anyway.

That is true, a person is not saved by how they live. But by the grace Of God..

[Katzpur]

Originally Posted by beloved57

Thats right. I know athiest and buddah priest and christian scienctist with exemplanary behaviour but they are not believers in christ.

Oh, so now you have to believe in Christ. You just got through saying you couldn't do anything at all to make a difference and now you're telling me that you have to believe in Christ. Suppose this Buddhist priest is on God's list of people He's going to save. According to you, he was on that list before he was ever born. What's God going to do with him now, since he ended up being a Buddhist priest?

Originally Posted by beloved57

That is true, a person is not saved by how they live. But by the grace Of God..

Then how do you know that the three people you mentioned are not saved? You contradict yourself every time you open your mouth, you know that? Maybe this atheist, this Buddhist priest and this Christian Scientist will be saved by God's grace (despite the horrible way they evidently lived their lives). Ever stop to think of that?

See you believe in salvation by good behaviour, you are not a believer !

Don't you dare tell me what I believe! EVER!

[UnTheist]

Originally Posted by beloved57

[b]

That is true, a person is not saved by how they live. But by the grace Of God..

Hmm. There are many, many problems with that statement, and your view of how a just God would want you to live your life is quite bizzare
Your argument states that I can kill 300 people, rape women, curse my parents a thousand times, burn babies, and if I pray to God to take my sins away, I have a better chance of salvation than an Atheist that based his whole life on good deeds and helping other humans, simply because he didn't believe in something he couldn't sense in any way.

[Katzpur]

Originally Posted by `PaWz

Hmm. There are many, many problems with that statement, and your view of how a just God would want you to live your life is quite bizzare
Your argument states that I can kill 300 people, rape women, curse my parents a thousand times, burn babies, and if I pray to God to take my sins away, I have a better chance of salvation than an Atheist that based his whole life on good deeds and helping other humans, simply because he didn't believe in something he couldn't sense in any way.

And that's only the half of it! It's not a matter of one person having a better chance of salvation than someone else. It's a case of one person having a 100% chance of beging saved and another one having a 100% change of being damned. It's a cast-in-concrete decision that was made for both of these individuals before either of them even takes his first breath.

[Reverend Rick]

It is quite possible for some people preaching on TV, not to be in heaven and Charles Manson to become saved and see God. With God, all things are possible.

[beloved57]

Originally Posted by `PaWz

Hmm. There are many, many problems with that statement, and your view of how a just God would want you to live your life is quite bizzare
Your argument states that I can kill 300 people, rape women, curse my parents a thousand times, burn babies, and if I pray to God to take my sins away, I have a better chance of salvation than an Atheist that based his whole life on good deeds and helping other humans, simply because he didn't believe in something he couldn't sense in any way.

Thats not what I said, I said that salvation is not based on human peformance or good behaviour , but on grace.

[beloved57]

Originally Posted by Reverend Rick

It is quite possible for some people preaching on TV, not to be in heaven and Charles Manson to become saved and see God. With God, all things are possible.

Well if manson was a elect and the tv evangelist are not, well yeah you have judged correctly..

[beloved57]

Originally Posted by Katzpur

And that's only the half of it! It's not a matter of one person having a better chance of salvation than someone else. It's a case of one person having a 100% chance of beging saved and another one having a 100% change of being damned. It's a cast-in-concrete decision that was made for both of these individuals before either of them even takes his first breath.

Thats right your eternal destiny was decided by God in eternity past and you cannot change it..