Accepting the Mark of the Beast: A Rebuttal (Jesus, priests)

[yuvgotmel]

After reading threads pertaining to "end times," "rapture" etc, I have decided to throw a real hot debate into the fray. Text abbreviated...

Excerpts from http://www.spirit-of-the-torah.com/m...the_beast.html
#1:

As a child of less than eight years old, I sat in a pew of an Assemblies of God church in Concord, North Carolina, watching a movie, with much horror, which fueled nightmares and seeded doubts in my mind for many years to come. In one scene of the movie, a woman was imprisoned for refusing to take “the mark of the beast.” Back then, the scriptwriters deduced that the “mark” was a tattoo; and the characters in the film used black magic markers to simulate the tattoo without accepting the permanent one.

..... Yet the misinformation continues, adapting with the new technologies. Nowadays, the Christian propagandists (such as the leaders of the fundamentalist movement) claim that the “mark” is a computer chip, which can be implanted under the skin.

“A tiny surgical implant—a paper-thin computer chip no more than a quarter-inch square. The thing can be inserted very easily under the flesh of your hand by any physician, and it can be read by a simple recognition device—a sort of hand ID-reader.”
From “The End of the Age,” p. 223
By Pat Robertson (of the 700 Club and CBN Ministries)

....what spiritual grounds does a Christian have to oppose a chip under the skin? ...

Mark 7:14~15: ...Jesus ... said, “Listen to me, everyone, and understand this. Nothing outside a man can make him ‘unclean’ by going into him. Rather, it is what comes out of a man that makes him ‘unclean.’”

...interpretation of Revelation 13:16~17...:

“A day is coming when you will not even be able to buy a pack of gum without the proper approval, without having a chip in your hand or forehead. …I believe the main reason the Antichrist will cause everyone to receive what is known as the ‘mark of the beast’ ...”
From “Daniel to Doomsday: The Countdown has Begun,” pp. 179~180
By (Texan pastor and TV evangelist) John Hagee

....Whatever malevolent part of the psyche took over Hagee as he wrote “Daniel to Doomsday” is uncertain, but it seems to be contagious among stiff-necked zealots. Pat Robertson, in his fiction book “The End of the Age,” proposes that Jews must convert to Christianity or else be murdered. ...

#2:

...Yet Christianity appeals to a different system of “logic” compared to the Jewish manner of mysticism. Certain Christian teachers seem to have no problem quoting stand-alone verses, giving each a substantial weight, while forgoing the patterns associated with the spiritual concepts and key words contained in the verses.

...some Christian conspiracy addicts have incorporated a semi-gemetra-like system in order to figure out the number of the beast by a numerological comparison of famous names and places, it is still far from what the Jewish sages would have taught. ...

.....The prophetic writings carry a lesser weight, in Jewish tradition, than do the verses in the Torah.

...in Genesis chapter 4.

Genesis 4:15: God said to him, ‘Indeed! Whoever kills Cain will be punished seven times as much.’ God put a mark on Cain’s forehead so that anyone who found Cain would not kill him.

This verse follows the account of when Cain killed his brother Abel. Even though Cain was punished, God did not mete out capital punishment, as in “an eye for an eye.” It rather appears as a lesson of Mercy. Instead of slaying him, like a cruel demiurge, Cain was allowed to live; and he had a mark (on his forehead) which kept him from being killed.

...is similar to the laws pertaining to a particular type of sin offering.

Leviticus 16:20~22: ...Aaron shall press both his hands on the live goat’s head, and he shall confess on it all the Israelites’ sins, rebellious acts and inadvertent misdeeds. ...The goat will thus carry all the sins away to a desolate area when it is sent to the desert.

“The mark” (on the forehead)...is a symbolic representation of sin. The Levite priests also wore the insignia...

#3:

...The assumption continues, as they claim, that Christians ...will be persecuted unto death ...

But…that is not congruent with the prophet Ezekiel, from whose writings spiritual vultures pick and choose the best portions of texts which meets their criteria for sensationalism and fear-mongering.
In Ezekiel, the opposite of what conspiracy theorists claim is true: the (Lord's) people, who were marked, were saved from destruction!

...I have yet to see any of the pseudo-shepherds mention this verse:

Ezekiel 9:3~6: …the LORD said to him, ‘Pass through the city, through Jerusalem, and put a mark on the foreheads of the men who moan and groan because of all the abominations that are commited in it.’ To the others He said in my hearing ‘Follow him through the city and strike; show no pity or compassion. Kill off graybeard, youth and maiden, women and children; but do not touch any person who bears the mark. Begin here at My Sanctuary.’

#4:

The number 666 is associated with Gold in 1 Kings 10:14 and 2 Chronicles 9:13. Gold is the Alchemists' goal, which comes after a long process of spiritual transformation.

[Mister_T]

I stop taking this "chip" theory seriously as soon as I saw Pat Robertson's name attatched to it.

I always thought the number 666 was deemed Satan's number because it mocks the symbolic holy numbers in the Bible; which in this case, are the numbers 3 and 7. Sin is described as missing the mark (three numbers, 777, missing the mark = 666)

[wmam]

Maybe I'm just tired and am missing it but what is the question? Or was this a statement which your hoping for a reply?

[yuvgotmel]

I've been browsing the boards and reading views concerning the "end times," "rapture," etc. Having listened to this type of scary stuff since I was a child, I began to investigate the claims, through my own research of the scriptures. What I have discovered often differs from what seems to be the common interpretations--or at least the most accepted ones in certain groups. The "mark of the beast," for example, has been equated to the Verichip, not only among certain radical Christian groups but some conspiracy theories as well.

When in my studies of the Bible, I continued to find references to marks on the forehead. I was intrigued, however, because those references were not congruent with what I had been taught growing up in a radical Christian environment.

Recently, on another forum, there has been a big debate over the upcoming National ID card. I have yet to see any real "news" on that issue. Yet, there are people who are already equating the National ID card to the mark of the beast; and subsequently, some are also saying that the Verichip implants are soon to follow.

I would like to offer the challenge and question to that issue. Simply put, "what spiritual grounds does a Christian have in refusing a chip under the skin?"

[yuvgotmel]

Originally Posted by Mister_T

I stop taking this "chip" theory seriously as soon as I saw Pat Robertson's name attatched to it.

LOL

[xexon]

The "beast" is very intimately related to the world financial system.

There are now some transactions that can only be completed with a credit card. Cash has been displaced in favor of a plastic currency issued by corporations. Cash is no longer legal tender for all debts public and private.

If you have a number within this system, you are a part of the beast.

It owns you, as you will find out soon enough.

You don't need a chip just yet, but you will.


x

[yuvgotmel]

Originally Posted by xexon

The "beast" is very intimately related to the world financial system.

....

You don't need a chip just yet, but you will.

That may or may not be true. And there are persons who will refuse to take the chip purely for personal reasons, or health related concerns, etc.

Would you refuse to take the chip?

And if so, would it be for spiritual reasons?

And if so, what spiritual reasons would those be?

[xexon]

When you're tagged as cattle, they are not too concerned with your well being to begin with.

A lot will go on before you get to this point, but at the time it happens, it will seem like a good idea. Getting the number, that is.

I can escape from it because I have the freedom to travel. It will not affect the entire world, but a very large part of it will fall into this group. If I had no choice but to accept it against my will, I would explore ways to remove myself from it at the earliest convenience.

It is an worldly thing, and does not affect the spirit. It will be a test of the mind, not the spirit.

You're going to meet Satan in the desert.


x

[yuvgotmel]

Originally Posted by xexon

When you're tagged as cattle, they are not too concerned with your well being to begin with.

A lot will go on before you get to this point, but at the time it happens, it will seem like a good idea. Getting the number, that is.

I can escape from it because I have the freedom to travel. It will not affect the entire world, but a very large part of it will fall into this group. If I had no choice but to accept it against my will, I would explore ways to remove myself from it at the earliest convenience.

It is an worldly thing, and does not affect the spirit. It will be a test of the mind, not the spirit.

You're going to meet Satan in the desert.

Where are you getting this information from? Speculation? Biblical interpretation?

[angellous_evangellous]

Simply put, "what spiritual grounds does a Christian have in refusing a chip under the skin?"

None.

Unless you consider following a fundie like a brainless lemming "spiritual."