The Bible and its Contradictions/Oddities (Jesus, Creator, scrutiny, tradition)

yippityyak · #1 12-07-2006, 12:36 AM

Hi All,

What I want to know is, why are there so many contridictions in the Bible?
An example of this is where God talks and almost condones slavery of other people, but in the New Testament, Jesus talks about loving everyone, including your enemies?

Another thing that confuses me is the fact that a lot of Christians say that the Old Testament is as relevant today as the New Testament is. Why is it relevant today that i own a slave and that I am allowed to strike him because he is my property? And then it goes on to say that if I strike my slave and he dies immediately, I will be punished. But if I strike him and he only dies a day or two later, then I cant be punished because he is my property. If it is not meant literally for it to be relevant today, then what is the meaning of this?

And why does God make Revelation so difficult to understand? Why cant it be written in such a way that we can understand what he is trying to show us?

If anyone can help me, that would be great! Thanks.

FerventGodSeeker · #2 12-07-2006, 12:43 AM

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Originally Posted by yippityyak

And why does God make Revelation so difficult to understand? Why cant it be written in such a way that we can understand what he is trying to show us?

If anyone can help me, that would be great! Thanks.

Hi Yippityyak! I won't answer all your questions, I'll let others take a stab at them...but your last one did strike me as interesting. God's revelation doesn't have to be hard to understand, if we are yielded to Him and His Spirit to reveal the truth to us. The problem is, we have this thing called sin in our lives that separates us from the perfect Creator, and we have this odd tendency to do exactly what God doesn't want us to do. Due to this separation that we create for ourselves due to our imperfections and our turning away from God, God's words to us become jumbled, if they are heard at all. Luckily, thanks to His saving grace, we have the ability to overcome sin through Him and to learn and understand the truth. Hope that helps! God bless.

yippityyak · #3 12-07-2006, 01:14 AM

Thanks FerventGodSeeker.
I understand that we all have sin in our lives, but what confuses me the most is that if God wants us to come to him out of our own free will, why cant he make things a little more simple so that we can make an informed decision? I dont like the idea of believing in something that I am blinded to until I actually believe it, not that my explanation makes sense.

I am an ex-Christian, and reading the Bible when i was a Christian and reading it now, as a semi-non-believer seems the same to me. Look, I will never deny the fact that there are certain passages in the Bible that grab you and you are awestruck, but there are certain things that just dont make sense! And it is those things that I cant get my head around and make a decision about.

Certain things about Revelations gets me, like there are two different interpretations for the symbolism of the Horse. One person has told me it means victory over Satan and his "2000 years of ruling" he had or the other explanation from my church was that is meant death. That he rode on a Colt to cut those down who did not believe in him. To me that is two totally different explanations, and just one of my confusions.

Thank you very much for taking the time to help me with this problem i have!

James the Persian · #4 12-07-2006, 01:30 AM

Are you labouring under the assumption that God wrote the Bible? Or that that's how most Christians view it? It certainly sounds that way. That's a peculiar attitude that you seem to find only in the various post-Reformation churches. None of the problems you raised stand scrutiny once you realise two things. First that the Bible was written by men not God. They may have been inspired by God but they certainly weren't dictated to and so they bring themselves to their writing as any author does. Second, that the Bible was never intended to be understood outside of a well defined oral Tradition that was passed down through the Church - and it was the Church that wrote and collected the Bible. The Bible itself refers to this and it's only when you throw out that Tradition, which is what the Reformers did, that you start to have problems of interpretation like this.

The Apocalypse (Revelation) was always knows to be difficult. It is an account of a vision and is written in symbolic language. The Tradition of the Church is pretty clear on what it means but, for this very reason it remains the only book of the New Testament that is not read in the Liturgy. That Protestants are often more than a little obsessed by the book (whilst rarely showing much understanding of its meaning - hence nonsensical heresies like the Rapture) is another consequence of the Reformer's abandonment of Holy Tradition in favour of their own personal interpretations.

James

FerventGodSeeker · #5 12-07-2006, 01:48 AM

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Originally Posted by yippityyak

Thanks FerventGodSeeker.
I understand that we all have sin in our lives, but what confuses me the most is that if God wants us to come to him out of our own free will, why cant he make things a little more simple so that we can make an informed decision?

Because on our own, we can't make an informed decision. It is only through God's grace and supernatural empowerment that we even have the faith to believe in the first place.

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I dont like the idea of believing in something that I am blinded to until I actually believe it,

Neither does Christianity, in the final analysis.

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I am an ex-Christian, and reading the Bible when i was a Christian and reading it now, as a semi-non-believer seems the same to me. Look, I will never deny the fact that there are certain passages in the Bible that grab you and you are awestruck, but there are certain things that just dont make sense! And it is those things that I cant get my head around and make a decision about.

No one, believer or non-believer, will ever fully understand an infinite being with our finite minds. This is not to say that God is entirely illogical, either; He gave us minds for a reason...however, if you're waiting to believe in the truths of Christ, His Church, and His Word until you have absolutely everything put inside a little box where you can explain everything and compartmentalize everything in your head, you will never believe.

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Certain things about Revelations gets me, like there are two different interpretations for the symbolism of the Horse. One person has told me it means victory over Satan and his "2000 years of ruling" he had or the other explanation from my church was that is meant death. That he rode on a Colt to cut those down who did not believe in him. To me that is two totally different explanations, and just one of my confusions.

The fact that people have different interpretations of a passage does not make the passage itself invalid.

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Thank you very much for taking the time to help me with this problem i have

You're welcome. But you should realize, ultimately, it is only God who can help you to understand His mysteries.

yippityyak · #6 12-07-2006, 01:56 AM

Thank you for your help guys.

There is another thing that is also confusing to me, this Rapture that everyone talks about. What is it really? I have been told that it is before Jesus returns, where people will just disappear. They are there one minute, and the next not. Is this a story that people make up or is it correct?

I understand what you are saying about waiting to have everything in place before i believe. Its the last thing that I want to do, and I am trying my best not to do it. I guess I am just walking blindly at the moment, trying to find something that is comfortable. And yet, to feel uncomfortable is when you are the most vulnerable and the most likely to recieve what you are meant to.

:-)

yippityyak · #7 12-07-2006, 01:59 AM

Sorry, another thing.
If you take a verse in the Bible and interpret it in any way that you want to, is this not considered going against what God says, in that His word should not be changed or interpreted to suit anyone?

And what of stories that the Bible has been altered by the Roman Catholic church and that there are Books of the Bible that are missing or hidden? Sorry, no offence, but just stories I have heard.

:-)

FerventGodSeeker · #8 12-07-2006, 02:19 AM

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Quote:

Originally Posted by yippityyak

Sorry, another thing.
If you take a verse in the Bible and interpret it in any way that you want to, is this not considered going against what God says, in that His word should not be changed or interpreted to suit anyone?

Yes, see 2 Peter 1:20

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And what of stories that the Bible has been altered by the Roman Catholic church and that there are Books of the Bible that are missing or hidden? Sorry, no offence, but just stories I have heard.

The Canon of Christian Scripture has been the same since the Church decreed it in 397 AD.

James the Persian · #9 12-07-2006, 02:29 AM

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Originally Posted by yippityyak

There is another thing that is also confusing to me, this Rapture that everyone talks about. What is it really? I have been told that it is before Jesus returns, where people will just disappear. They are there one minute, and the next not. Is this a story that people make up or is it correct?

It's a very recent (19th century) and dangerous heresy. What you have heard about it (people disappearing) is correct although that view is one of several versions of the same idea. The idea in the version you are thinking of is that Christians will be taken away by God so that they don't have to suffer the Tribulation before Judgement Day. It has, unfortunately, become extremely popular amongst a certain section of evangelical Christianity, particularly in America, but it has absolutely no basis in either Scripture or Holy Tradition and was completely unknown to the Church for its first 1800 years.

Interestingly, the same people who tend to cling to the Rapture almost invariably consider themselves sola scripturalist and yet the originator of he belief never even claimed to get it from the Bible but rather from the visions of a woman called Margaret MacDonald. They claim that they can find it spelled out in Scripture (which essentially mean that 1800 years worth of their predecesors were stupid, I guess) but when you actually look at the passages they use for this, in context it is clear that they do not speak of any rapture and one of the favourites only even reads the way they claim because ofa poor translation from the Greek. The Rapture, frankly, has about as much to do with Christianity as hamburgers have to do with ham - sounds on the surface like they might be intrinsically linked but further investigation shows otherwise.

James