What is the Old Covenant? (Earth, genesis, scriptures, Isaac)

Bishka · #1 09-02-2006, 01:19 AM

What in your interpretation is the Old Covenant?

BruceDLimber · #2 09-02-2006, 09:40 AM

Hi!

>What is the Old Covenant?

"Covenant" = "Testament."

And by now, in the Baha'i view, there are LOTS of old Covenants because of how many stages religion has already progressed through! . . .

Best,

Bruce

Bishka · #3 09-02-2006, 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BruceDLimber

Hi!

>What is the Old Covenant?

"Covenant" = "Testament."

And by now, in the Baha'i view, there are LOTS of old Covenants because of how many stages religion has already progressed through! . . .

Best,

Bruce

That really didn't explain anything about what the Old Covenant actually is.

Snowbear · #4 09-02-2006, 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by beckysoup61

What in your interpretation is the Old Covenant?

Which one? The one God made with Noah? IT's the one where God promised to never again use a flood to destroy the earth. The sign of that Promise is the rainbow, AFAIK, that one is still in effect

Genesis 9:8 And God spoke to Noah, and to his sons with him, saying,
9 Behold! I, even I, establish My covenant with you, and with your seed after you;
10 and with every living creature that is with you, of the birds, of the cattle, and of every animal of the earth with you; from all that go out from the ark, to every animal of the earth.
11 And I will establish My covenant with you. Neither shall all flesh be cut off any more by the waters of a flood. Neither shall there any more be a flood to destroy the earth.
12 And God said, This is the token of the covenant which I make between Me and you and every living creature with you, for everlasting generations:

PetShopBoy88 · #5 09-02-2006, 04:02 PM

There were lots of "old" covenants. There was the covenant between God and Abraham, for one. This covenant was repeated through Isaac and Jacob. I don't know that it's very ... honest perhaps is the word, to simply break things up into "old" and "new" covenants.

Booko · #6 09-02-2006, 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by beckysoup61

That really didn't explain anything about what the Old Covenant actually is.

Um, Becky, from a Baha'i pov the question doesn't really make a lot of sense, so I understand Bruce's response.

It's like if you asked me if I liked the Old Car, and I went "Huh?" because I have no idea *which* Old Car you had in mind. Was it the Deusenberg? The Stutz? The Jag?

We don't believe there's a single "Old Covenant." There are lots of them. And someday, we'll be one of them too. So it goes...

Bishka · #7 09-02-2006, 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Booko

Um, Becky, from a Baha'i pov the question doesn't really make a lot of sense, so I understand Bruce's response.

It's like if you asked me if I liked the Old Car, and I went "Huh?" because I have no idea *which* Old Car you had in mind. Was it the Deusenberg? The Stutz? The Jag?

We don't believe there's a single "Old Covenant." There are lots of them. And someday, we'll be one of them too. So it goes...

Could you explain that a little more to me.

Sorry if I offended you.

I don't know a lot about the Bahai faith, although I would like to pick up some Bahai scriptures, know where I could do that?

Booko · #8 09-02-2006, 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by beckysoup61

Could you explain that a little more to me.

Sorry if I offended you.

I don't know a lot about the Bahai faith, although I would like to pick up some Bahai scriptures, know where I could do that?

Oh gosh, Becky, you didn't offend me!

Hm...Baha'i Writings are available online at www.bahai-library.org. If you want something in print, PM me and I can make some recommendations depending on what you were looking for. There's a lot to choose from...

"The Covenant" is an expansive topic in the Baha'i Faith, even without referencing other faiths as well. Er, imagine how big it gets when you add everyone else too. But here's the very short version:

Each Prophet has two Covenants.

One is the "Lesser" Covenant, and that is, if His followers accept the successor that's named, they'll be protected from division "within the ranks" as it were. If not, then that faith becomes divided and its power is diluted.

The "Greater" Covenant is one that the Prophet makes, promising that a new Prophet will be sent, and He charges the people to accept this new Prophet when He comes. A general statement of this might be, "God does not leave humanity without guidance."

In a Christian context, the Lesser Covenant is that the successor would be Peter (uh, don't assume that means "The RCC is right about everything") and the Greater Covenant is that Jesus would return.

In a Baha'i context, the Lesser Covenant is that the successors are, in order: Abdul'-Baha (a.k.a. "Center of the Covenant"), Shoghi Effendi (a.k.a. "The Guardian") and now the Universal House of Justice (in Haifa). We've been around now for over a century and half without sectarian divisions (a new thing in religious history) because we have such clear instructions about how to stay unified. Previous religions were not so lucky, as instructions from the Prophet were verbal, and so a little easier to ignore.

Our Greater Covenant, which Bruce alluded to, is that another Prophet will come 1000 years after Baha'u'llah (but not before).

Bishka · #9 09-02-2006, 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Booko

Oh gosh, Becky, you didn't offend me!

Hm...Baha'i Writings are available online at www.bahai-library.org. If you want something in print, PM me and I can make some recommendations depending on what you were looking for. There's a lot to choose from...

"The Covenant" is an expansive topic in the Baha'i Faith, even without referencing other faiths as well. Er, imagine how big it gets when you add everyone else too. But here's the very short version:

Each Prophet has two Covenants.

One is the "Lesser" Covenant, and that is, if His followers accept the successor that's named, they'll be protected from division "within the ranks" as it were. If not, then that faith becomes divided and its power is diluted.

The "Greater" Covenant is one that the Prophet makes, promising that a new Prophet will be sent, and He charges the people to accept this new Prophet when He comes. A general statement of this might be, "God does not leave humanity without guidance."

In a Christian context, the Lesser Covenant is that the successor would be Peter (uh, don't assume that means "The RCC is right about everything") and the Greater Covenant is that Jesus would return.

In a Baha'i context, the Lesser Covenant is that the successors are, in order: Abdul'-Baha (a.k.a. "Center of the Covenant"), Shoghi Effendi (a.k.a. "The Guardian") and now the Universal House of Justice (in Haifa). We've been around now for over a century and half without sectarian divisions (a new thing in religious history) because we have such clear instructions about how to stay unified. Previous religions were not so lucky, as instructions from the Prophet were verbal, and so a little easier to ignore.

Our Greater Covenant, which Bruce alluded to, is that another Prophet will come 1000 years after Baha'u'llah (but not before).

When did the Bah'u'llah come?