Leviticus (Jesus, moral, exodus, salvation, homosexuality)

[Mister Emu]

Why is it acceptable for a believer to eat shellfish but not copulate with the same sex?

Jesus specifically says

Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man.

Matthew 15:11

Hope that helps.

[Green Gaia]

Originally Posted by Gerani1248

about leviticus, i think the dude who wrote it must have been in error. i dunno.

No, I don't think the author of Leviticus was in error. He was simply recording the laws of the ancient Jewish people. The problem comes in when people try to apply those ancient laws to our society today. It doesn't fit. It's two different worlds.

[linwood]

Hope that helps.

Not really.
It tells me why it`s ok to eat shellfish but it still gives me no standard by which you judge the laws in Leviticus to find which are still applicable and which aren`t.

Jesus doesn`t say anything whatsoever about homosexuality so I guess that one no longer applies?
If he says nothing about adultery, a womans menstrual cycle, burnt offerings, or fruit trees or leprosy I guess those don`t apply either?

If Jesus doesn`t mention it is it now ok to peek up my moms skirt?

Why aren`t you sectioning cattle every Saturday and having the priests properly arrange it on the pyre so God can savour the sweet aroma?

I consider myself a somewhat intelligent man.
When a simple concept is explained to me in language I can understand I`m 100% of the time able to grasp its meaning.

The only conclusion I`m coming to here is that Christians themselves have no standard to determine what laws to follow and which are no longer applicable.

If this is the case then there is no foundation for many of the rules Christians follow.
It is indeed ala carte.

Again,I am more than happy to change my conclusion.
Just give me some evidence to promote a different view.
Any evidence.

[linwood]

No, I don't the author of Leviticus was in error. He was simply recording the laws of the ancient Jewish people. The problem comes in when people try to apply those ancient laws to our society today. It doesn't fit. It's two different worlds.

But Maize there are Christians who claim that some of these laws still apply in todays world yet I can`t get an answer as to why some do and some don`t.

Do you know why ?

[Green Gaia]

No, linwood, I don't. Except that some believe the Bible is God's own words, including Leviticus. So they've thrown off the laws that they believe were social laws, applying only to the Jewish people, but kept the others. Which as far as I can tell the only one kept is the law concerning homosexuality. This is my best understanding. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

(I still hold that Levitivus is nothing more than a record of ancient Jewish laws that are unfeasible in today's world.)

[linwood]

Originally Posted by SOGFPP

I can't explain it any better than I have already:

While the Old Testament’s ceremonial requirements are no longer binding, its moral requirements are. God may issue different ceremonies for use in different times and cultures, but his moral requirements are eternal and are binding on all cultures.

I can accept that but how do you decide which are moral laws and which are just ceremonial?

[Mister Emu]

Jesus doesn`t say anything whatsoever about homosexuality so I guess that one no longer applies?

No, Jesus specifically stated that food no longer mattered therefore it doesn't.

It tells me why it`s ok to eat shellfish but it still gives me no standard by which you judge the laws in Leviticus to find which are still applicable and which aren`t.

You have been told multiple times, MORALS stay LAWS do not , MORALS stay LAWs go.

When a simple concept is explained to me in language I can understand I`m 100% of the time able to grasp its meaning.

Then grasp it, there is a difference between morals and laws, I explained it in the simpleist terms

steals is wrong : MORAL
you goto jail fro stealing: LAW

Man+man=abomination: MORAL
Killing homosexuals: LAW

That is the difference.

Which as far as I can tell the only one kept is the law concerning homosexuality. This is my best understanding. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong

If we kept to the law about homosexuals, well we'd all be killers. We do not keep the law, we keep the moral.

Why aren`t you sectioning cattle every Saturday and having the priests properly arrange it on the pyre so God can savour the sweet aroma?

Because Jesus was the ultimate sacrifice, we no longer have to give burnt offerings.

[Pah]

Originally Posted by Mister Emu

Then grasp it, there is a difference between morals and laws, I explained it in the simpleist terms

steals is wrong : MORAL
you goto jail fro stealing: LAW

Man+man=abomination: MORAL
Killing homosexuals: LAW

That is the difference.

Unfortunetly for your argument morality changes with the times as well. In the Church we can see celebracy flip-flop for clergy. We can see the influence of ensoulment and the idea or quickening altering the view of the earliest Church fathers regarding abortion. We have seen the silence of the Roman Catholic Church when Jews were being killed by Hitler. The Church has seen fit to elect as pope some very licentious men. Specifically in the point of this thread, we see the Church blessing the union of same sex couples.

Morality, though more stable than laws, does change.

-pah-

[linwood]

Originally Posted by Mister Emu

You have been told multiple times, MORALS stay LAWS do not , MORALS stay LAWs go.

I have been told two different things multiple times and the only question I asked still remains unanswered.

You tell me that all the moral parts of all the laws still hold true but that the punishment for them no longer applies.

Scott tells me there is a difference between the laws, that some are moral and some are ceremonial yet NO ONE has as of yet told me by which standards these are separated.

Under your (Mr. Emus) definition it is immoral for me to....

Become a Wiccan .........................Lev 20:27

Kiss my wife if she`s on her period....Lev 15:9

Cut my hair or trim my beard............Lev 19:27

But it is moral for a Jew to...

Buy slaves as long as they are gentile....Lev 25:44

Unless Jesus made a statement contradicting these laws they still hold true in a moral sense.

Is that what you`re telling me?

I would ask you why the "Morals stay but the law goes"?
Does the Bible (NT) specifically say this somewhere?
Where did you learn that the "Morals stay but the law goes"?

Then grasp it, there is a difference between morals and laws, I explained it in the simpleist terms

I think I do grasp your idea but I still think it`s immoral for a Jew to buy slaves

If we kept to the law about homosexuals, well we'd all be killers. We do not keep the law, we keep the moral.

Then you disagree with the movement among the religious right to amend the constitution to make it LAWFULto discriminate against homosexuals?

Granted the proposed law isn`t as harsh as death but it`s still pretty harsh to deny someone the opportunity to raise a family within the deep commitment that marriage provides.
It`s still pretty harsh to deny a person access to a loved partner who has been hospitalized.
It`s still pretty harsh to deny a person the right to carry out the wishes of a loved partner after the partners death.
It`s still pretty harsh to deny equitable medical coverage to a loved partner because of their