Leviticus (Jesus, moral, exodus, salvation, homosexuality)

[linwood]

How is the difference between "Ceremonial" & "Moral" laws determined?

What of Davids little affair with Jonathan?

[Mister Emu]

How is the difference between "Ceremonial" & "Moral" laws determined?

The morals were not laws I explained this in my earlier posts.

What of Davids little affair with Jonathan?

Hmm, never happened? Yup, that's it, never happened.

[linwood]

Originally Posted by Mister Emu

The morals were not laws I explained this in my earlier posts.

I`m sorry Emu I`ve apparently missed those posts.
Can you direct me to them?
I just really want to know but what standards they are separated.

Hmm, never happened? Yup, that's it, never happened.

lol...ok..ok.

1 Samuel 18:3-4
"And Jonathan made a covenant with David because he loved him as himself. Jonathan took off the robe he was wearing and gave it to David, along with his tunic, and even his sword, his bow and his belt."

1Samuel 20:41
"...and they kissed one another and wept with one another until David became great."

2 Samuel 1:26
"I grieve for you, Jonathan my brother; you were very dear to me. Your love for me was wonderful, more wonderful than that of women."

[Ardhanariswar]

these are the replies i got from posting Leviticus thread in the jesus forum

http://www.freejesus.net/home/viewto...?p=41714#41714

aineo is a old dude with aids who from gay, turned straight, or so he claims. hes extremly powerful in the forums.

[Mister Emu]

I`m sorry Emu I`ve apparently missed those posts.
Can you direct me to them?
I just really want to know but what standards they are separated.

SOGFPP, put it far better than I could have, his post is on page one, as well is mine.

lol...ok..ok.

If you wish to believe those passages are sexually oriented then be my guest, they are not and interpreting them in that fashion is the product of minds who wish to turn brotherly and spiritual bonding into something completley different to justify themselve's or others' unjustifiable actions.

[linwood]

Originally Posted by Mister Emu

SOGFPP, put it far better than I could have, his post is on page one, as well is mine.

I read them both and understand what you and Scott are saying but neither post states what standard or rule was used to determine what was a moral law and what was ceremonial.
The differences can`t be simply arbitrary can they?
If so they were "picked"
Kinda ala carte..

If you wish to believe those passages are sexually oriented then be my guest, they are not and interpreting them in that fashion is the product of minds who wish to turn brotherly and spiritual bonding into something completley different to justify themselve's or others' unjustifiable actions.

It just doesn`t sound like Jonathan and David making out until David gets large is really a brotherly thing.
I dunno for sure though..I`m an only child

I also would never use the Bible to "justify" anything.
I don`t think anyones sexuality needs justification.

Men and women didn`t much associate in platonic relationships in ancient Israel so I`m led to believe most relationships involving "love" between men and women were of a physical nature.
Why would David compare his love for Jonathan as more wonderful than that of women?
Why not more wonderful than that of a brother, father, son, or other friends?

It seems you and I have been debating quite a few topics back and forth and we will most probably continue that so I will tell you for future reference that I always attempt to interpret any religious text in it`s most literal form possible.
This is where alot of our disagreements come from I suspect.

I would also like to say I have enjoyed the debates we`ve had as they haven`t even come close to degrading into idiocy as many do between people with such different beliefs as you and I.
Thank you for that.

[linwood]

Originally Posted by Gerani1248

these are the replies i got from posting Leviticus thread in the jesus forum

http://www.freejesus.net/home/viewto...?p=41714#41714

aineo is a old dude with aids who from gay, turned straight, or so he claims. hes extremly powerful in the forums.

Ptolemy has a hell of a dissertion going on over there..thanks for the link.

[Mister Emu]

I read them both and understand what you and Scott are saying but neither post states what standard or rule was used to determine what was a moral law and what was ceremonial.
The differences can`t be simply arbitrary can they?
If so they were "picked"
Kinda ala carte..

Can you understand the difference between the two following statements, if so then you can understand the difference.

Stealing is wrong.
If you steal, you will goto jail.

One is a moral, one is a law. There is the difference bewteen, Man lieing with man is an abomination, and they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

It just doesn`t sound like Jonathan and David making out until David gets large is really a brotherly thing.
I dunno for sure though..I`m an only child

It never says they made out.

and the translation for the word is:
OT:1431

gadal (gaw-dal'); a primitive root; properly, to twist [compare OT:1434], i.e. to be (causatively make) large (in various senses, as in body, mind, estate or honor, also in pride):


KJV - advance, boast, bring up, exceed, excellent, be (-come, do, give, make, wax), great (-er, come to ... estate, + things), grow (up), increase, lift up, magnify (-ifical), be much set by, nourish (up), pass, promote, proudly [spoken], tower.
(Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright (c) 1994, Biblesoft and International Bible Translators, Inc.)

OT:1431
gadal --



to grow, to become great or important, to promote, to make powerful, to praise, to magnify, to do great things

a) (Qal)
1) to grow up
2) to become great
3) to be magnified
b) (Piel)
1) to cause to grow
2) to make great, to make powerful
3) to magnify
c) (Pual) to be brought up
d) (Hiphil)
1) to make great
2) to magnify
3) to do great things
e) (Hithpael) to magnify oneself
(from The Online Bible Thayer's Greek Lexicon and Brown Driver & Briggs Hebrew Lexicon, Copyright (c)1993, Woodside Bible Fellowship, Ontario, Canada. Licensed from the Institute for Creation Research.)

to take it as(and I am assuming correct me if I'm wrong) that they kissed until he got "hard" is rediculous.

Judas betrayed Jesus with a kiss, that as in this instance was not homosexual or homoerotic in any way, it was brotherly affection(or would have been had Judas not betrayed).

I also would never use the Bible to "justify" anything.
I don`t think anyones sexuality needs justification.

I never said you did, I said this interpretation is the product of minds trying to justify.

Why would David compare his love for Jonathan as more wonderful than that of women?
Why not more wonderful than that of a brother, father, son, or other friends?

This was to show how powerful the bond was, it was above a mere fleshly relation and transcended to the spiritual.

It seems you and I have been debating quite a few topics back and forth and we will most probably continue that so I will tell you for future reference that I always attempt to interpret any religious text in it`s most literal form possible.
This is where alot of our disagreements come from I suspect.

I am a strict literalist when it comes to the Bible, I guess our difference come in what we believe as literal translations

I would also like to say I have enjoyed the debates we`ve had as they haven`t even come close to degrading into idiocy as many do between people with such different beliefs as you and I.
Thank you for that.

I am always up for a good debate, I would like to thank you too for the well thought out debates.

[DianJo]

Scott,
Thanks for putting that in perspective! I have seen that letter before and all it does is make fun of God's intention for His people. That's what comes from just quoting scripture passages out of context and not taking into account the reason these things were set down in fisrt place. It's such a shame that people take such delight in distorting God's word and intention.