How does the Holy Spirit guide a person, and why do you reason thus? (Jesus Christ, priest)

[Searcher of Light]

Welcome, hourglass. I look forward to hearing your views.

michel, I do agree with much of the stance of the Orothodox viewpoint. However, there is a problem with it. While I agree meditation and prayer is needed to discern the Holy Spirit from other spirits, could not that meditation and prayer be tainted by those other spirits? The aim of these other sources of guidance is the make a person err. It stand to reason, therefore, that they will strive to influence the meditation and prayer process.

[Yasin]

Originally Posted by Searcher of Light

How does the Holy Spirit guide a person, and why do you reason thus?

First of all I would like to put foward my argument that the Holy Spirt is not, as you know him but is another.
And i have proof from the text of the Bible itself!

Respectively, Yasin

[dawny0826]

Originally Posted by Yasin

First of all I would like to put foward my argument that the Holy Spirt is not, as you know him but is another.
And i have proof from the text of the Bible itself!

Respectively, Yasin

By all means...share.

[Dentonz]

Originally Posted by Searcher of Light

First, my stance on the question:

Miraculous gifts are no longer in existence because the apostles were the only ones with the ability to pass them onto others (see the book of Acts), and mainly because the perfect message of God has been written through the apostles. (1 Corinthians 13:8-13, 2 Peter 1:3) Many of Paul's writings discuss this fact (i would list the verses if I had more time).

As recorded throughout the OT and the NT, the Holy Spirit does not work through emotions or other impulses but through words. Examples include Adam and Eve, Noah, David, etc. (See also 2 Sam 23:2, 2 Timothy, Revelation 2 and 3)

The Holy Spirit, as recorded throughout the OT and NT spoke through individuals and not to many people in a population. For example: Noah, Moses, and the apostle.

If everyone who claims it was truly inspired by the Holy Spirit there would only be solidarity in religion: God is not the author of confusion (1 Corinthians 14:33).

Outside of the Apostolic and Jewish writings the Holy Spirit is silent. The confusion in religion cannot be something God has in mind. It can only be the work of Satan and of man. Because of precedent I believe the Holy Spirit would not act as modern religion's traditional view. It would act by gifts that were only passed through the apostles to others, and it would act by words. It would not act by convulsions and other confusion.

Now that you have my stance and reasoning behind my stance:

How does the Holy Spirit guide a person, and why do you reason thus?

No one true revelation of the Holy Spirit will ever contradict another. Anyone who claims to have a new revelation needs to be tested against the Bible.

I'll try not get to far off subject, but miraculous gifts are still in existence today.
1 Cor 13:10 says "But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part will be done away." I believe "that which is perfect" is when Jesus returns to set up his kingdom. Because only then will there be no more sickness or death and so on. And yes the Holy Spirit only spoke through a few people in the OT because the Holy Spirit had not come for all yet. After Jesus ascended he sent the Holy Spirit. On the day of pentecost the Holy Spirit fell on all in the upper room (120 people). And then fell on 3000+ later that day. All were filled with the Holy Spirit. No man can be drawn to the cross accept by the Holy Spirit.

If you pray for God"s will in all things, humbly seek his face, deny yourself, then he will reveal himself to you.

[Searcher of Light]

Originally Posted by Dentonz

No one true revelation of the Holy Spirit will ever contradict another. Anyone who claims to have a new revelation needs to be tested against the Bible.

I'll try not get to far off subject, but miraculous gifts are still in existence today.
1 Cor 13:10 says "But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part will be done away." I believe "that which is perfect" is when Jesus returns to set up his kingdom. Because only then will there be no more sickness or death and so on. And yes the Holy Spirit only spoke through a few people in the OT because the Holy Spirit had not come for all yet. After Jesus ascended he sent the Holy Spirit. On the day of pentecost the Holy Spirit fell on all in the upper room (120 people). And then fell on 3000+ later that day. All were filled with the Holy Spirit. No man can be drawn to the cross accept by the Holy Spirit.

If you pray for God"s will in all things, humbly seek his face, deny yourself, then he will reveal himself to you.

I have read and debated the proof that miraculous gifts are still in existance many times and have yet to be convinced they are. There is no need for them when the Scriptures exist. That was, afterall, their main purpose: to prove the Apostles were inspired(Romans 15:8-10, Hebrews 2:3-5, and many more). There are ample warnings that gifts of such nature are not to be trusted alone because they can be used to decieve as well. This is why I do not see gifts being present today.I do appreciate your stance however. We all intrepret things differently.

I have always read the "filling" with the Holy Spirit as understanding outside of the Apostles. Such usuage of a god filling a person was used throughout ancient writings as a method of describing an epiphany of understanding.

I do pray many times a day for God's Will to be done and for understanding. I continually deny myself and shoulder my cross. Although you may not agree, God has revealed himself to me...through His Word.

Gee, ain't religion subjective?

[Dentonz]

Originally Posted by Searcher of Light

I have read and debated the proof that miraculous gifts are still in existance many times and have yet to be convinced they are. There is no need for them when the Scriptures exist. That was, afterall, their main purpose: to prove the Apostles were inspired(Romans 15:8-10, Hebrews 2:3-5, and many more). There are ample warnings that gifts of such nature are not to be trusted alone because they can be used to decieve as well. This is why I do not see gifts being present today.I do appreciate your stance however. We all intrepret things differently.

I have always read the "filling" with the Holy Spirit as understanding outside of the Apostles. Such usuage of a god filling a person was used throughout ancient writings as a method of describing an epiphany of understanding.

I do pray many times a day for God's Will to be done and for understanding. I continually deny myself and shoulder my cross. Although you may not agree, God has revealed himself to me...through His Word.

Gee, ain't religion subjective?

Yes it is. I agree God reveals himself differently to people. But I have seen first hand blind eyes opened, the lame walk, cancer healed. I also once prayed for a man who was scheduled for a quadruple bypass and he convinced them to run some more tests and his ateries were completely clear.

May god keep you and continue to bless you in your search in Jesus' name,
Denton

[Scuba Pete]

Jesus refered to the Holy Spirit as our "counselor", and so I will too!

Jesus revealed his will to us and was explicit:

John 13:34 "A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. 35 By this all men will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another." NIV

In another passage he revealed that the entire law and all of the prophets "hung" on this concept. It is the Spirit's job to open the eyes of our hearts as to what this means and how to accomplish it in our lives. This is the perfect law of FREEDOM!

II Corinthians 3:12 Therefore, since we have such a hope, we are very bold. 13 We are not like Moses, who would put a veil over his face to keep the Israelites from gazing at it while the radiance was fading away. 14 But their minds were made dull, for to this day the same veil remains when the old covenant is read. It has not been removed, because only in Christ is it taken away. 15 Even to this day when Moses is read, a veil covers their hearts. 16 But whenever anyone turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. 17 Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. 18 And we, who with unveiled faces all reflect the Lord's glory, are being transformed into his likeness with ever-increasing glory, which comes from the Lord, who is the Spirit. NIV

The Spirit does not need to reveal additional teachings. Rather it TRANSFORMS us from the inside out into the LOVING likeness of Jesus. As we grow closer to the head in both purpose and understanding we grow closer to each other. Many of us already look past the insignifigant and petty differences that seem to divide and embrace the commonality that we possess: Christ Jesus and him crucified. One died that we might all live for him: to become like him in his Spirit. This is the true meaning of growing in God's "grace".

[Yasin]

Originally Posted by dawny0826

By all means...share.

Prophet Muhammad (pbuh), The Comforter Promised

And remember, Jesus, the son of Mary, said: "O Children of Israel! I am the apostle of Allah (sent) to you, confirming the Law (which came) before me, and giving Glad Tidings of an Messenger to come after me, whose name shall be Ahmad (Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) ." But when he came to them with Clear Signs, they said, "this is evident sorcery!"
(Holy Quran 61:6)

And i shall pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever.
(John 14:16)

Who is this "another Comforter" mentioned, according to the New testament, it is the Holy Ghost ( or The Spirt of Truth):

But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost...
(John 14:26)

But how can this be reconciled with this:

Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away; for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
(John 16:7)

So from this we can gather, in order for the Comforter to come, Jesus (pbuh) has to go, but again this contradicts, verses such as these:

....and the Holy Ghost was upon him (Simon).
(Luke 2:25)

And the Master (Jesus pbhu) himself:

And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shap like a dove upon him (jesus)...
(Luke 3:22)

And to the Disciples, he already gave the Holy Ghost:

...Receive ye the Holy Ghost.
(John 20:22)

So once Again WHO IS THE COMFORTER?

What we hear from our Christian brethren, is nothing but the result of contradictory statements, lets put the records straight, the Comforter is not the Holy Ghost as some may claim, but is a Prophet that was to come, and has come, The Holy Prophet Muhammad (pbuh):

Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak; and he will shew you things to come.
(John 16:13)

Who is this "Spirit of Truth"?

If we turn to the first epistle of John; chapter 4, verse 1, we read:

Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out in to the world.

From this verse, it can be understood, that the term Spirit is synonymous or the same as the word Prophet.

Now for the Test

Hereby know ye the spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God...
(1 John 4:2-3)

Now all you have to do is apply this test given in the Bible, to Prophet Muhammad (pbuh), and see who the realy is The Comforter promised.
Who was he as a man, what did he teach?
Was he a Prophet of God?

Respectively to all, Yasin

[Scuba Pete]

Sorry Yasin,

I see no contradiction here, only word play on your part.

I do not see that the "Holy Spirit" means some human prophet by any of this, in fact it teaches the exact opposite.