John 3:16 (salvation, funeral, blood, hell, mission)

[sushannah]

Originally Posted by beckysoup61

Well, I don't know if you know about the LDS thoughts on this, but any child under the age of 8 is automatically saved, no matter what.

After that if someone, anyone, even a child 8 and over has died, we do proxy baptisms so the child has a chance, so in the LDS faith, everyone has a chance, it's just up to them when they are dead if they accept it or not.

Proxy baptism - now that an interesting concept. Thirty some odd years ago, my grandmother, who was Jewish her entire life, died. Some misguided individual had a catholic priest make her a catholic after she was dead. How ridiculous does it get I ask you? proxy baptism, don't make me laugh!

[angellous_evangellous]

Originally Posted by Bangbang

So whats the point of Missionaries risking their lives preaching if the reward of everlasting life is available to every one. The scriptures say you must go through Jesus by believing in him to recieve the reward.

First of all, Christians are commanded to preach the Gospel.

At the same time, we believe that Christianity is a constructive religion. In other words, although God can save whom he choses through Christ (Romans 9), Christianity still gives deep meaning to the lives of people. Confessing Christ and participating in Christianity is a sign of salvation and not a garauntee. God saves who He wants to through Jesus Christ, whether or not someone believes.

[Bangbang]

Originally Posted by angellous_evangellous

First of all, Christians are commanded to preach the Gospel.

At the same time, we believe that Christianity is a constructive religion. In other words, although God can save whom he choses through Christ (Romans 9), Christianity still gives deep meaning to the lives of people. Confessing Christ and participating in Christianity is a sign of salvation and not a garauntee. God saves who He wants to through Jesus Christ, whether or not someone believes.

Then would it be better to have not heard the Gospel. Then we would not be required to preach it but still be saved by Jesus sacrifice? Do humans need to believe in Christ to have meaning in their lives?

[angellous_evangellous]

Originally Posted by Bangbang

Then would it be better to have not heard the Gospel.

I don't see how you came to this conclusion from what I wrote.

Then we would not be required to preach it but still be saved by Jesus sacrifice?

OK, I am a Christian. From the Christian POV, there is no salvation outside of the sacrifice of Christ. God's work in Christ is the atonement for the sins of the world. Christianity is the group that confesses that Jesus is Lord, and that we should worship this God. I think that if this God exists, it is constructive to worship Him and obey Him and preach.

Part of the message of salvation is that no one can do anything to save themselves. God did it all. God sent his Son, God gives faith, God saves those whom God chooses. If Christian doctrine is true, then this salvation is done through the sacrifice of Christ - both for the believer and the non-believer. Confession and obedience are a gift to those who confess Christ.

Do humans need to believe in Christ to have meaning in their lives?

Absolutely not!! Many religions give spiritual meaning and enrichment to the lives of millions and millions of people. However, if the God of the Bible created everything and sent his Son, the best thing for all of us to do is recognize His authority.

[sojourner]

Originally Posted by angellous_evangellous

First of all, Christians are commanded to preach the Gospel.

At the same time, we believe that Christianity is a constructive religion. In other words, although God can save whom he choses through Christ (Romans 9), Christianity still gives deep meaning to the lives of people. Confessing Christ and participating in Christianity is a sign of salvation and not a garauntee. God saves who He wants to through Jesus Christ, whether or not someone believes.

Thank you! It really is just that simple, folks!

[Abram]

Lets say you ask a one person how to get to the other side of your country, they might say "by plane"

You ask another person the same question, they say "by car"

You ask another person the same question, they say "by train"
In fact you could walk, by horse, boat, list goes on and on.

None of these are wrong ways to get there, you could even try a few of them. But regardless of how you get there it's the fact that your heading there.

Baptism to me is just another way to get closer to God now. We speaking of a God that will judge with perfect judgement and love, he wants us with him. But if you don't want to go he's not going to drag you kicking and screaming. He's looking for reason to accept us, not reason to keep us out.

Now if anyone says your not going to heaven for any reason, this is a stupid reason. How can a single person speak on account for God and how he will judge. God loves us and would do anything for us, even give his only son.

[Aqualung]

What if somebody in authority, the guy who is making the rules, specifically says "you have to go by train"? Doesn't that then make plane, car, boat, foot, horse, etc. wrong?

[Dentonz]

Originally Posted by Buttons*

In another thread "Children of Adulters" Michel brought up a topic about children dying before baptism. Interestingly enough (for me at least) on Friday in my Christian Humanities class we talked about that exact subject! So I thought i'd bring it up on here! yay! (this should probably go into discussion instead of debate, but the mods can decide that *shrugs*)

SO yes, if Christians believe that you have to be baptised in order to go to heaven, and a child dies before they can be baptised (be it miscarriges, abortions, complications in birth, undeveloped vital organs, premature birth... which result in death...) does it go to heaven? Catholics, (correct me if im wrong guys) would say that it goes to Limbo. What do yall think about that? WIll a child, if not baptised before death, go to hell? Why do you think what you think about it?

Another tough question is: When is a child accountable for understanding God and accepting Him? I was baptised as a baby, and the school says that it doesnt count because I, myself, never asked God into my heart. What do you think? When can a child fully understand the concept of God, and choose to accept Him? Is there a cut off age when children are accountable in the eyes of God for salvation?

Also, for those who will never understand the concept of God, such as the mentally challanged, does God grant mercy upon them if they cannot grasp the concept themselves?

I don't believe that the act of baptism means anything unless the person being baptized has, through faith, accepted Jesus as their Lord. You are accountable for your own relationship with God. I don't believe there is anything Biblical that can support a young child without understanding or a mentally handicapped person being damned.

The age of accountability would be when you decide for yourself either to accept Christ or not.

[Abram]

Originally Posted by Aqualung

What if somebody in authority, the guy who is making the rules, specifically says "you have to go by train"? Doesn't that then make plane, car, boat, foot, horse, etc. wrong?

If they say that the only way you can come into this state is by foot, then yes. But if they were a loving country that saw you trying all these different ways, spending the time and energy I think they would let you in.