Taking on the Sin of the World (Jesus Christ, Earth, salvation)

sandy whitelinger · #1 01-07-2006, 09:54 AM

I think it is well accepted that Adam was a type of Christ. That whole first Adam last Adam thing. My topic then is why Adam ate the fruit in the garden. Did Adam, being a type of Christ, feel it nescassary to take on Eve's sin (her's being the only sin available and thus being the "sin of the world") and suffer death in a similar episode as Christ taking on the sin of the world and dying for our redemption? Did Adam's action point towards Christ on the Cross in much the same way as the law served as a schoolmaster?

michel · #2 01-07-2006, 10:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sandy whitelinger

I think it is well accepted that Adam was a type of Christ. That whole first Adam last Adam thing. My topic then is why Adam ate the fruit in the garden. Did Adam, being a type of Christ, feel it nescassary to take on Eve's sin (her's being the only sin available and thus being the "sin of the world") and suffer death in a similar episode as Christ taking on the sin of the world and dying for our redemption? Did Adam's action point towards Christ on the Cross in much the same way as the law served as a schoolmaster?

I personally don't subscriber to the old Testament, least of all Genesis ; the whole lot ios built oon 'shifting sands'.

I believe that God sent Jesus to atone for our sins, but forget Adam and Eve (in my opinion) - that, to me, is a parable for those who need a simple version to understand........

sandy whitelinger · #3 01-07-2006, 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by michel

I personally don't subscriber to the old Testament, least of all Genesis ; the whole lot ios built oon 'shifting sands'.

Genesis is the foundation for the rest of the Old and the New Testament. I think maybe you cath the last few minutes of sporting events as well?

[quote=michel]I believe that God sent Jesus to atone for our sins, but forget Adam and Eve (in my opinion) - that, to me, is a parable for those who need a simple version to understand........

Parables in the Bible are always labeled as parables.

michel · #4 01-07-2006, 10:11 AM

[quote=sandy whitelinger]Genesis is the foundation for the rest of the Old and the New Testament. I think maybe you cath the last few minutes of sporting events as well?

Quote:

Originally Posted by michel

I believe that God sent Jesus to atone for our sins, but forget Adam and Eve (in my opinion) - that, to me, is a parable for those who need a simple version to understand........

Parables in the Bible are always labeled as parables.

Then we shall agree to disagree, amicably.

mormonman · #5 01-14-2006, 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sandy whitelinger

I think it is well accepted that Adam was a type of Christ. That whole first Adam last Adam thing. My topic then is why Adam ate the fruit in the garden. Did Adam, being a type of Christ, feel it nescassary to take on Eve's sin (her's being the only sin available and thus being the "sin of the world") and suffer death in a similar episode as Christ taking on the sin of the world and dying for our redemption? Did Adam's action point towards Christ on the Cross in much the same way as the law served as a schoolmaster?

That's interesting. I never really thought about it that way. I usually look at it more black and white. God told them not to eat the fruit, but to repleinsh the earth. They couldn't reproduce in the Garden of Eden. They really couldn't follow one commandment w/o breaking the other. He also told Adam that he should "ceave unto his wife". If Adam wouldn't have eaten of the fruit he would have lived in the Garden forever, w/o Eve, thus disobeying that commandment also. On a side note it's funny how stupid Satan was. If he didn't get Eve to eat the fruit, Adam and Eve would have stayed in the Garden forever, ergo screwing up the plan of salvation.

dawny0826 · #6 01-14-2006, 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by michel

I personally don't subscriber to the old Testament, least of all Genesis ; the whole lot ios built oon 'shifting sands'.

I believe that God sent Jesus to atone for our sins, but forget Adam and Eve (in my opinion) - that, to me, is a parable for those who need a simple version to understand........

As Michel said...Jesus Christ was sent to atone for our sins...not Adam.

may · #7 01-14-2006, 12:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sandy whitelinger

I think it is well accepted that Adam was a type of Christ. That whole first Adam last Adam thing. My topic then is why Adam ate the fruit in the garden. Did Adam, being a type of Christ, feel it nescassary to take on Eve's sin (her's being the only sin available and thus being the "sin of the world") and suffer death in a similar episode as Christ taking on the sin of the world and dying for our redemption? Did Adam's action point towards Christ on the Cross in much the same way as the law served as a schoolmaster?

only Jesus could redeem what Adam had lost ,he lost us everlasting life , but Jesus is the way back to everlasting life

By means of him, "the last Adam," we may inherit marvelous blessings from God.—1 Corinthians 15:45; Revelation 21:3, 4.

Jesus Christ himself had said: "Just as the Son of man came, not to be ministered to, but to minister and to give his soul a RANSOM in exchange for many." This made it possible for those exercising faith in Jesus Christ to gain everlasting life.—Matthew 20:28; John 3:16

Popeyesays · #8 01-14-2006, 05:14 PM

I feel that there is great truth to the story of Adam and Eve, but it is not an historical truth. No reporter wrote the story. If you look at it for its metaphorical value, you will find much and if you want to uphold the literal version you are sinking in a morass of superstition.

I apologize for the length of this quote, but I think it should be read entirely to illustrate what I mean:
"ADAM AND EVE
Question. -- What is the truth of the story of Adam, and His eating of the fruit of the tree?
Answer. -- In the Bible it is written that God put Adam in the garden of Eden, to cultivate and take care of it, and said to Him: "Eat of every tree of the garden except the tree of good and evil, for if You eat of that, You will die."[1] Then it is said that God caused Adam to sleep, and He took one of His ribs and created woman in order that she might be His companion. After that it is said the serpent induced the woman to eat of the tree, saying: "God has forbidden you to eat of the tree in order that your eyes may not be opened, and that you may not know good from evil."[2] Then Eve ate from the tree and gave unto Adam, Who also ate; their eyes were opened, they found themselves naked, and they hid their bodies with leaves. In consequence of this act they received the reproaches of God. God said to Adam: "Hast Thou eaten of the forbidden tree?" Adam answered: "Eve tempted Me, and I did eat." God then reproved Eve; Eve said: "The serpent tempted me, and I did eat." For this the serpent was cursed, and enmity was put between the serpent and Eve, and between their descendants. And God said: "The man is become like unto Us, knowing good and evil, and perhaps He will eat of the tree of life and live forever." So God guarded the tree of life.[3]
[1 Cf. Gen. 2:16-17.]
[2 Cf. Gen. 3:5.]
[3 Cf. Gen. 3:11-15,22.] 123
If we take this story in its apparent meaning, according to the interpretation of the masses, it is indeed extraordinary. The intelligence cannot accept it, affirm it, or imagine it; for such arrangements, such details, such speeches and reproaches are far from being those of an intelligent man, how much less of the Divinity -- that Divinity Who has organized this infinite universe in the most perfect form, and its innumerable inhabitants with absolute system, strength and perfection.
We must reflect a little: if the literal meaning of this story were attributed to a wise man, certainly all would logically deny that this arrangement, this invention, could have emanated from an intelligent being. Therefore, this story of Adam and Eve who ate from the tree, and their expulsion from Paradise, must be thought of simply as a symbol. It contains divine mysteries and universal meanings, and it is capable of marvelous explanations. Only those who are initiated into mysteries, and those who are near the Court of the All-Powerful, are aware of these secrets. Hence these verses of the Bible have numerous meanings.
We will explain one of them, and we will say: Adam signifies the heavenly spirit of Adam, and Eve His human soul. For in some passages in the Holy Books where women are mentioned, they represent the soul of man. The tree of good and evil signifies the human world; for the spiritual and divine world is purely good and absolutely luminous, but in the human world light and darkness, good and evil, exist as opposite conditions.
The meaning of the serpent is attachment to the human world. This attachment of the spirit to the human world led the soul and spirit of Adam from the world of freedom to the world of bondage and caused Him to turn from the Kingdom of Unity to the human world. When the soul and spirit of Adam entered the human world, He came out from the paradise of freedom and fell into the world of 124 bondage. From the height of purity and absolute goodness, He entered into the world of good and evil.
The tree of life is the highest degree of the world of existence: the position of the Word of God, and the supreme Manifestation. Therefore, that position has been preserved; and, at the appearance of the most noble supreme Manifestation, it became apparent and clear. For the position of Adam, with regard to the appearance and manifestation of the divine perfections, was in the embryonic condition; the position of Christ was the condition of maturity and the age of reason; and the rising of the Greatest Luminary [1] was the condition of the perfection of the essence and of the qualities. This is why in the supreme Paradise the tree of life is the expression for the center of absolutely pure sanctity -- that is to say, of the divine supreme Manifestation. From the days of Adam until the days of Christ, They spoke little of eternal life and the heavenly universal perfections. This tree of life was the position of the Reality of Christ; through His manifestation it was planted and adorned with everlasting fruits.
[1 Bahá'u'lláh.]
Now consider how far this meaning conforms to the reality. For the spirit and the soul of Adam, when they were attached to the human world, passed from the world of freedom into the world of bondage, and His descendants continued in bondage. This attachment of the soul and spirit to the human world, which is sin, was inherited by the descendants of Adam, and is the serpent which is always in the midst of, and at enmity with, the spirits and the descendants of Adam. That enmity continues and endures. For attachment to the world has become the cause of the bondage of spirits, and this bondage is identical with sin, which has been transmitted from Adam to His posterity. It is because of this attachment that men 125 have been deprived of essential spirituality and exalted position.
When the sanctified breezes of Christ and the holy light of the Greatest Luminary [1] were spread abroad, the human realities -- that is to say, those who turned toward the Word of God and received the profusion of His bounties -- were saved from this attachment and sin, obtained everlasting life, were delivered from the chains of bondage, and attained to the world of liberty. They were freed from the vices of the human world, and were blessed by the virtues of the Kingdom. This is the meaning of the words of Christ, "I gave My blood for the life of the world"[2] -- that is to say, I have chosen all these troubles, these sufferings, calamities, and even the greatest martyrdom, to attain this object, the remission of sins (that is, the detachment of spirits from the human world, and their attraction to the divine world) in order that souls may arise who will be the very essence of the guidance of mankind, and the manifestations of the perfections of the Supreme Kingdom.
[1 Bahá'u'lláh.]
[2 Cf. John 6:51.]
Observe that if, according to the suppositions of the People of the Book,[1] the meaning were taken in its exoteric sense, it would be absolute injustice and complete predestination. If Adam sinned by going near the forbidden tree, what was the sin of the glorious Abraham, and what was the error of Moses the Interlocutor? What was the crime of Noah the Prophet? What was the transgression of Joseph the Truthful? What was the iniquity of the Prophets of God, and what was the trespass of John the Chaste? Would the justice of God have allowed these enlightened Manifestations, on account of the sin of Adam, to find torment in hell until Christ came and by the sacrifice of Himself saved them from excruciating tortures? Such an 126 idea is beyond every law and rule and cannot be accepted by any intelligent person.
[1 Jews and Christians.]
No; it means what has already been said: Adam is the spirit of Adam, and Eve is His soul; the tree is the human world, and the serpent is that attachment to this world which constitutes sin, and which has infected the descendants of Adam. Christ by His holy breezes saved men from this attachment and freed them from this sin. The sin in Adam is relative to His position. Although from this attachment there proceed results, nevertheless, attachment to the earthly world, in relation to attachment to the spiritual world, is considered as a sin. The good deeds of the righteous are the sins of the Near Ones. This is established. So bodily power is not only defective in relation to spiritual power; it is weakness in comparison. In the same way, physical life, in comparison with eternal life in the Kingdom, is considered as death. So Christ called the physical life death, and said: "Let the dead bury their dead."[1] Though those souls possessed physical life, yet in His eyes that life was death.
[1 Matt. 8:22.]
This is one of the meanings of the biblical story of Adam. Reflect until you discover the others.
Salutations be upon you."
(Abdu'l-Baha, Some Answered Questions, p. 126)

Regards,
Scott